“Watch the Podcast”
“Listen the Podcast”
“Show Notes”
Is your SEO still working? This episode with web expert Alex Vita asks the provocative question: Is traditional SEO dead in the age of AI? Discover why tracking website traffic is no longer enough and what strategic shift you must make to secure premium clients in the “Zero Click Marketing” world.
The Zero Click Strategy: Discover why chasing simple SEO traffic is a waste of time and what single metric you should be tracking instead to prove your online efforts are working.
The New Rules of Google: Learn the most crucial concept for modern SEO and Google Search, and how to build a powerful online reputation that satisfies both AI and your potential clients.
Positioning for Premium Fees: Find out how to stop being a generalist and use a simple positioning tactic on your website that allows you to immediately justify charging higher fees.
“Show Transcription”
00:03.09
Sam Hollis
Hello, Marcus. How are you doing?
00:05.99
Marcus
I am rific. I was going to say too good then, but that’s not right, is it? I’m brilliant. Thanks, Sam.
00:16.28
Sam Hollis
Excellent. Very good. um ah Good to hear, Marcus. And we have a guest again this week, which is excellent. So this week we have with us Alex Vita, who is a web designer for photographers. Hi, Alex.
00:30.63
Alex Vita
Hi, great to be here. Nice to meet you both.
00:33.48
Marcus
Hi, Alex.
00:34.66
Sam Hollis
Yeah, great to meet you. Do you want to tell ah introduce yourself to our listeners?
00:41.14
Alex Vita
So I build websites for photographers for a living. I’ve been doing that for 17 years.
00:47.51
Marcus
Oh, wow.
00:47.76
Alex Vita
um I write educational articles on that topic, um services, bespoke websites, marketing, consulting, all of that basically.
00:58.63
Sam Hollis
Amazing.
00:59.19
Marcus
Oh, that’s excellent. Yeah.
01:00.02
Sam Hollis
so So a lot of experience. And then I think we’re going to dig right in.
01:02.96
Alex Vita
you
01:03.86
Sam Hollis
What we were going to talk about in the show, really, I think is positioning. That’s going to be our ah big topic for the show, really, is, you know, how do you do stand out when there’s, you know, there’s a lot of other people doing the same thing?
01:17.44
Sam Hollis
Or how do, you know, so yeah, do you want to kind of start us off on that topic, Alex, a little bit about about positioning and and how photographers can deal with that?
01:28.47
Alex Vita
Yeah, and I think that’s key because everyone wants to get more results from their website, from their business. The ultimate goal, right, to get more inquiries, more sales.
01:40.61
Alex Vita
And as opposed to the usual obsession, which is more traffic, more number one on Google, that sort of stuff, which is…
01:41.12
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
01:46.07
Marcus
Oh.
01:47.72
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
01:48.99
Alex Vita
You know, it’s a vanity metric and it’s going down for all photographers these days with AI.
01:48.75
Sam Hollis
Yeah. yeah
01:55.62
Alex Vita
We’re kind of in this zero click marketing era. ah
02:00.39
Marcus
ah
02:01.27
Alex Vita
ChatGPT doesn’t send too many clicks back to the websites.
02:01.41
Sam Hollis
yeah
02:05.38
Alex Vita
Social media websites surely don’t do that. They want to keep you locked in. So traffic is not the to measure, but results, sales, inquiries, leads, all of that.
02:16.59
Alex Vita
And I can talk 10 hours about website mistakes, performance, copywriting, design.
02:17.45
Sam Hollis
OK.
02:23.13
Sam Hollis
OK. Yeah.
02:25.36
Alex Vita
But usually the main problem is how photographers position themselves, how they present their services, what they’re offering.
02:33.06
Sam Hollis
okay
02:35.51
Alex Vita
That’s the key that many photographers miss, I think.
02:36.43
Sam Hollis
yeah
02:40.44
Alex Vita
And it’s this um under under the umbrella of positioning is… What allows you to justify premium fees as a photographer to get better clients, to get more expertise?
02:50.23
Sam Hollis
Cool. So, Alex, so I really want to go into that.
02:53.30
Alex Vita
Yeah.
02:55.04
Sam Hollis
i just want to clarify something you said earlier, just it’s really clear to listeners. So you talked about a no-click theory. Can you just kind of explain what you mean by that?
03:01.54
Marcus
Yeah, that was interesting to me as well, yes.
03:04.68
Alex Vita
Well, um ah SEO as as like a marketing source is changing because of AI recently.
03:16.41
Alex Vita
That’s what I’ve seen. And I like i manage um websites for photographers and I look into Google Analytics reports and Google Search Console stuff as well.
03:18.84
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
03:28.08
Alex Vita
And traffic is slowly going down for many photographers. That’s because… I use ChatGPT all the time instead of going to Google. I look i use Google like 10% of the time that I used before.
03:38.07
Marcus
Yeah.
03:39.06
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
03:42.57
Marcus
wow
03:42.72
Alex Vita
um And ChatGPT can mention, can surface a photographer if a client is actually looking. And I’ve heard a lot of like client stories of clients who plan their wedding using ChatGPT or try to look up a headshot photographer using ChatGPT.
04:03.05
Alex Vita
And ChatGPT is not giving you the link directly, hey, visit this website. No, it’s mentioning the photographer by name.
04:07.68
Sam Hollis
yeah
04:09.67
Alex Vita
Same with social media profiles. Everyone knows how algorithms change and want to keep you locked in on the platform. They don’t link out to to the website. so So it’s a term I heard from…
04:20.88
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
04:23.83
Alex Vita
um Ran Fishkin, this ah SEO expert, and call it he calls it zero click marketing these days.
04:28.04
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
04:32.61
Alex Vita
So how do you
04:32.84
Sam Hollis
So kind of your, so when people do a search on AI, your name might appear, but they can’t just like in an old Google search, they’d click. They can’t click. They then got to go away and maybe do a separate search for your name and find you. So effectively, although they’ve found you in AI, you’re not getting that click that you can track back. Is that what you’re saying?
04:50.93
Alex Vita
Correct. Correct. So you’re not seeing traffic, pure raw traffic in Google Analytics.
04:52.64
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
04:56.55
Alex Vita
You’re not, it’s, that’s affected these days. It’s it’s going down. What matters is actually getting the inquiry, the contact message, the phone call from the client.
05:05.06
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
05:05.76
Marcus
Wow. like I mean, that’s a fundamental change that’s happened in what the last couple of years, isn’t it, Alex?
05:07.43
Sam Hollis
Yeah,
05:13.91
Marcus
A fundamental to change. We always were told to chase SEO, get number one on Google, all that kind of thing. And now you’re saying that is no longer relevant.
05:25.26
Alex Vita
It’s changing, meaning though the the criteria for how AI chatbots surface you, ah they don’t show you, they they surface you in in its comments basically, is still reliant on some of SEO, it’s still reliant on your Google rankings, but only to a certain extent. It’s no longer the same.
05:50.10
Alex Vita
So the old SEO, Keywords everywhere, heading tags, alt tags, SEO meta descriptions, all of that. That was a a way to game the system before to improve your rankings on Google.
06:04.10
Alex Vita
That’s not enough anymore.
06:06.26
Marcus
Right.
06:06.38
Alex Vita
that that that’s That’s not enough. So what matters now for AI rankings, let’s call it, it’s it’s not a technical term, is to be seen as an expert.
06:15.26
Marcus
Mm-hmm.
06:20.12
Alex Vita
It’s a concept, called if someone wants to look it up, it’s it’s a concept called EEAT, which is you’re seen as an expert, as an entity that’s an experienced service provider.
06:33.69
Alex Vita
So AI needs to have a good understanding of you as the photographer, from multiple sources, not just the website, but any other profile you have online, social media profiles, directories of photographers everywhere, all of it with consistent information of you as an expert service provider, as a photographer.
06:56.89
Alex Vita
It’s a difficult beast to tackle basically, but it is changing.
06:58.87
Marcus
I mean, just thinking
07:01.92
Alex Vita
Yeah.
07:01.75
Sam Hollis
Yeah, but in some ways, a lot of that was the same for Google, wasn’t it?
07:02.56
Marcus
i mean just
07:04.97
Sam Hollis
So they were getting a different end result is that you’re appearing in, in the AI, aiming for the AI, maybe not Google so much. Still with the Google, you know, it was still looking, wasn’t it? at Where are you on your Google Maps? Where are you in LinkedIn? Where you are you on business directories and finding you around the web and so and bringing that together?
07:22.05
Sam Hollis
So easy say is it a massive change? Or is it just kind of a change of focus, do you think?
07:27.32
Alex Vita
ah It’s a change in factors. I’d say Google was looking a lot in terms of content on the website um and keywords and all of that, whereas now it’s more…
07:43.16
Alex Vita
semantics, what you write about yourself. So stuff like having a good solid FAQ section on the on the website that pre-answers questions, that show shows that you’re an expert, that you know what you do.
07:58.31
Alex Vita
um It’s that sort of stuff. it’s It’s not a major change, but it is different. You’re no longer gaming the system with tags everywhere and keywords, but more more stories, more case studies on the website, how you’re an expert, that sort of stuff.
08:13.39
Sam Hollis
Okay.
08:15.04
Alex Vita
It’s a different shift in focus. Yeah, that’s a right term.
08:16.25
Sam Hollis
Yeah. And we’re waiting towards that content, which was always important, but like the waiting is shifting almost.
08:24.68
Alex Vita
Correct, correct. More focused on your service offering and not no quantity and tags and all of that.
08:26.40
Sam Hollis
Yeah. yeah
08:33.22
Alex Vita
I see that as a shift.
08:33.69
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yeah.
08:35.29
Alex Vita
And i’ve I’ve worked with photographers implementing that. They used to have like focus on blogging and to get a lot of content in for for Google.
08:46.47
Alex Vita
But now they’re like adding case studies from clients, successful clients to the website, f FAQ section, tweaking a ah the stories on the website.
08:57.46
Alex Vita
And they have clients coming in from ChatGPT explicitly saying that. So it it kind of works, but it’s, yeah.
09:06.07
Sam Hollis
Perfect.
09:08.69
Marcus
Okay, let’s let’s dive into this idea of position.
09:09.61
Sam Hollis
Okay. um And I want to come back because because I think about half an hour ago, I digressed from where we were actually going. But it was a very useful digression. So we were actually talking about positioning and you were just starting to talk to us about that, weren’t you, Alex?
09:23.55
Alex Vita
Yeah, yeah. So positioning,
09:24.40
Sam Hollis
Sorry, go on, Marcus. We got delay.
09:28.03
Marcus
That’s exactly the question that I just asked.
09:30.13
Sam Hollis
Yeah, go on.
09:30.85
Marcus
Don’t worry, we’ll edit it, Alex.
09:30.90
Alex Vita
yeah.
09:30.89
Sam Hollis
Marcus, you ask it because otherwise it’s me talking lots. You ask it, Marcus, and then we’ll carry on.
09:35.82
Marcus
OK, sorry, Alex, we got there is a long delay here and we will edit out, edit all this out. So it might look confusing, but Sam was a genius editing all this out together.
09:41.10
Alex Vita
Where is it?
09:45.97
Marcus
So, OK, this is all fantastic stuff, but I’d like to just go back to our ah the original question that Sam was asking. And I’m a little bit unclear. Just talk to me about positioning what we need to do.
09:53.42
Sam Hollis
so
09:57.08
Alex Vita
Okay, so positioning ah is this big term ah about how a photographer, who who the photographer works with in a nutshell. And I need to clarify the difference between um niching, niching down and specializing because many photographers mix those up.
10:18.45
Alex Vita
ah What I think of niching is targeting a super specific audience versus serving anyone as an access, right? um Like the market market vertical, you would call it.
10:33.02
Alex Vita
Whereas specializing is offering a specific service or doing full service, all types of photography. And if you combine these two niching and positioning, you get kind of this axis, whatever you want to call it.
10:45.60
Alex Vita
And that’s how you define your your business as a photographer. Without that, you don’t know who your target audience is. You don’t know how to do ah copywriting well on the website.
10:57.61
Alex Vita
You don’t know how to do marketing beyond that. So all the dominoes then then fall.
11:01.88
Sam Hollis
So just to kind of make it clear, so for example, so like a headshot photographer is a specialized photographer and an acting headshot photographer is a niche specialized photographer.
11:13.87
Sam Hollis
That’s what you’re saying.
11:14.64
Alex Vita
Correct, correct.
11:15.61
Marcus
Oh, Cope.
11:15.77
Alex Vita
it It does both.
11:16.64
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
11:17.21
Alex Vita
You you you got it right. Yeah.
11:18.87
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
11:21.03
Alex Vita
Exactly. So then, yeah, ah of course, the the common concern here is um when you niche down or when you specialize, your audience, your target audience becomes smaller.
11:21.14
Sam Hollis
Cool. Just would clarify that one.
11:36.17
Alex Vita
ah Smaller is usually better for positioning instead of being a beginner generalist, but not too small. You still need kind of a viable audience, of course.
11:47.78
Alex Vita
um So you need to strike that balance. But it’s something that photographers don’t do too much on their website. the They either combine multiple specialties. that They have this portfolio. They shoot architecture and weddings and family portraits and food photography. It’s like and no man’s land. You don’t intuitively trust them if they do too much.
12:16.96
Marcus
I still see that being done though, Alex.
12:17.78
Sam Hollis
okay
12:19.04
Marcus
I do still see websites where they do weddings, commercial, boudoir, whatever.
12:21.61
Alex Vita
yeah
12:28.37
Marcus
I wonder why this message is not getting a across. or are we missing something Are we missing something here?
12:31.34
Alex Vita
well
12:35.11
Alex Vita
It’s because um they do all those services. They they put food on the table, but um it’s it’s simply easier to manage a single website.
12:46.04
Marcus
Right.
12:46.37
Alex Vita
ah
12:46.44
Marcus
Okay. That’s it.
12:47.45
Alex Vita
the The decision whether to break it off into into two separate websites comes down to the overlap of audiences. If like you could have, um i don’t know, personal branding and um like corporate headshots and maybe ah team portraits, ah conference headshots on the same website.
13:05.02
Marcus
Mm-hmm.
13:07.94
Marcus
Mm-hmm.
13:10.73
Alex Vita
They have a similar type of audience. Same with wedding photographers and family photo shoots and baptisms.
13:12.36
Marcus
Yes. Yeah. Yes.
13:15.90
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
13:17.18
Alex Vita
But if you combine weddings and architecture, they don’t gel together.
13:20.73
Marcus
Yeah.
13:20.83
Sam Hollis
yeah
13:21.58
Alex Vita
You’re diluting your audience. So if there’s enough overlap, you keep them on the same website. It’s easier to manage, of course, yeah.
13:30.53
Sam Hollis
And then for a lot of photographers, what we’ve talked about niching a lot. um And a lot of photographers, it is scary, isn’t it, making that jump because you go, but but I can only make enough money having all these things. And and they’re just really worried about going, right, I’m going to say I’m only doing architecture, photography, nothing else. And they just, there’s a lot of worries and a lot of fear of making that jump of of specializing and niching.
13:54.84
Alex Vita
Correct. I get that. they’re They’re worried simply what I said. ah Too small of a market, I’ll get fewer leads, fewer clients, fewer food on the table. um it it is a leap of faith. You can break it off into a separate landing page if you’re really scared about that. Try to promote it it as a separate side business.
14:16.35
Alex Vita
But… Once it works, you reap the benefits of that because you learn the nuances of that field, of that niche. You provide better services. You get seen as more of an expert in that niche.
14:30.27
Alex Vita
You get the likelihood of referrals, of word of mouth referrals ah raises a lot. So um what’s the alternative these days becoming this generalist?
14:43.65
Marcus
ah judge
14:43.74
Alex Vita
Everyone. Yeah.
14:44.58
Marcus
Yes, it is it is becoming a generalist, isn’t it? And I and look i i am choking this down, Alex. you know I do one thing and i I teach people how to do it and I do it myself.
14:55.09
Marcus
I do branding photography.
14:56.68
Alex Vita
Yeah.
14:56.84
Marcus
But I did see a comment the other day and some of the people were saying, well, it these days it’s no longer no longer right to be a specialist. You have to be a generalist. Look, okay, it’s another argument. and I think they’re wrong.
15:10.75
Marcus
So I agree with you, Alex. Simple as that. yeah
15:12.94
Sam Hollis
But Marcus, are you are you niche?
15:14.38
Marcus
Yes.
15:14.94
Sam Hollis
Because what you’ve just described is you’re specialized. Have you got a niche within the within the branding sphere?
15:20.14
Marcus
Well, I work with coaches and motivational speakers specifically.
15:23.84
Sam Hollis
Okay, so yes.
15:25.22
Alex Vita
Okay. Yeah.
15:26.01
Marcus
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:27.05
Alex Vita
It’s a bit of both. Yeah. i Yeah.
15:30.26
Marcus
Yes. So go on.
15:30.80
Sam Hollis
Okay, so…
15:32.06
Marcus
Let’s hear some more from you, Alex, because this is really, really interesting.
15:31.64
Sam Hollis
so
15:35.42
Marcus
um Sam, ask some more good questions. you’re really good your This is totally your field.
15:40.04
Sam Hollis
So, yeah, so we’re kind of saying you’ve got to make that. And with so many shows we’ve gone, you’ve got to make that jump to being specialized. um So, yeah, you’ve got to get over the fear of that, listen to my shows on that. So once you’ve made that jump, you’re going specialized.
15:53.64
Sam Hollis
Once we’re starting to build a website, what what are those common mistakes that lots of photographers make that you see that you just think if could just change that, you know, this website would improve, it would get more conversions, it’d actually get more leads, more clients?
16:07.66
Alex Vita
Okay, so mistakes on the website after the positioning was done, basically. what’s that That’s the question, what they can do on the website beyond good positioning, correct?
16:19.20
Marcus
Mm-hmm.
16:20.52
Alex Vita
Okay, so um I would, to make a website
16:23.97
Sam Hollis
That’s it. yeah or Yeah. Or if you’re doing the positioning ideas, positive ideas for how to get it right.
16:31.20
Alex Vita
Yeah, so to ah to a good website usually, um well, it does many things, but mistakes I see, I usually put into two categories. One, poor content, and two, poor user experience on the website.
16:47.64
Alex Vita
By poor content, I mean, obviously image quality is bad, assuming that’s out of the way. that’s That’s the staple, right? um But it’s also poor content can mean missing contact information.
17:03.30
Alex Vita
You need to hunt it down or too many images, right?
17:06.22
Sam Hollis
Okay.
17:07.77
Marcus
Mmm. Mmm.
17:08.26
Alex Vita
The selection is poor or too few images or broken links, functionality, distracting backgrounds.
17:08.52
Marcus
yeah
17:15.17
Alex Vita
The content is poor. Or poor user experience, which is creating confusion on the website in any way. The navigation menu is weird. You kind of have to be a detective to find the right pages.
17:29.76
Alex Vita
um
17:30.36
Sam Hollis
Photographers seem to be stunningly bad at that that that navigation menu that people have grown over time with 14 things across the top. And they’re thinking, oh my God, where do you even start?
17:39.82
Alex Vita
Yeah. And they’re not called about or content. They’re something clever, very creative.
17:43.46
Sam Hollis
Oh, there’s something quirky. Yes, yeah, yeah, that nobody i actually understands.
17:49.23
Alex Vita
Yeah, exactly. the On the web, you need familiarity, words that are straightforward that people understand. um So one thing is creating confusion, that sort of stuff.
18:00.78
Alex Vita
The other is control. You’re taking control away from people. That’s through splash pages. they they They still happen.
18:08.31
Marcus
and
18:09.81
Alex Vita
You land on the photographer website. It’s just a single photo with a welcome button. ah yeah Like i’m I’m mad when I see that or annoying pop-ups or ah the classic homepage slideshows.
18:14.23
Marcus
Yeah.
18:16.86
Marcus
Yeah.
18:21.08
Marcus
Oh, pop-ups. Pop-ups, Alex. Pop-ups. Let’s just talk about pop-ups. Man. I mean, it’s not just photographers. I’m going to stand up right here. yeah ah So many websites have pop-ups that just come up and it’s just so annoying.
18:35.95
Alex Vita
Yeah, I know they’re effective. Anyone who runs up a newsletter knows that they work, but you you don’t know at what cost and how many people you’re annoying out of it.
18:47.64
Alex Vita
There are ways to make them more discreet, like an inline subscribe box or an exit intent pop up or with a delay. Yeah, there are options, but yeah, it is what it is.
18:54.89
Marcus
Yeah. Yeah.
18:57.79
Sam Hollis
I guess the other thing is, what is the priority of your site, isn’t it? If the priority of your site is just to grow your newsletter, then it might be thoroughly appropriate. But if it’s to kind of gradually nudge people to a very expensive photo shoot, you don’t want to annoy them by a buy a pop-up getting in the way.
19:13.04
Alex Vita
ah Correct, but it’s ultimately all roads lead to income and sales. And it’s whether you want to be overly aggressive with that or you’re more elegant.
19:26.44
Alex Vita
I can never forget a quote from from Seth Godin, of all people, who said, if you ab B test the website long enough, you end up with a porn site.
19:40.48
Alex Vita
That’s exactly it
19:41.07
Marcus
he’s like what That is the quote of the year, mate.
19:41.86
Sam Hollis
That’s brilliant. yeah
19:43.53
Marcus
Is that what Seth Golden said?
19:45.08
Alex Vita
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
19:45.66
Marcus
Oh, that’s a brilliant one. That is so true. And we all want um we all on a porn website, don’t we? Because we get lots of people coming to our sites.
19:51.61
Alex Vita
Correct, a lot of traffic, a lot of engagement on the website, but not, yeah.
19:57.75
Marcus
Cool. Okay, keep going, keep going. Let’s hear more.
20:00.07
Sam Hollis
um So you will you also talked about earlier um too many photos, too few photos.
20:00.83
Marcus
i’ I’m loving this.
20:06.43
Sam Hollis
So what’s your kind of thought on that ratio between, because obviously that’s quite confusing for people. What’s your thought on that ratio between like written content and images and andnna how you get that balance right? Because it is tempting as a photographer to but toque photograph, photograph, photograph and and push the content back.
20:20.99
Alex Vita
yeah Yeah, correct correct. And I also know it’s hard for photographers to make the photo selections. They’re too close to them, emotionally ah attached to them sometimes.
20:31.10
Marcus
Well, but that’s part of the job. No, that’s part of the job.
20:36.16
Alex Vita
Yeah, yeah.
20:36.40
Marcus
You’ve got to be able to edit your work. You’ve got to be able to say what what isn’t working and what is working.
20:40.98
Alex Vita
Correct. But not all photographers do that if they’re not experienced enough.
20:42.75
Marcus
Hmm.
20:44.30
Alex Vita
So ah ah it depends on the type of website. But for portfolio website, where the goal is just to showcase your best work and get clients that way, usually you need simple portfolio galleries, like 20, 30 images max.
21:00.25
Alex Vita
i I never see a need to go beyond that Facebook.
21:02.72
Marcus
No way.
21:04.02
Alex Vita
a service specific portfolio page. You might have two or three if you’re selling multiple services, but that’s enough. If you can’t convince people in 20 images, your best ones, you won’t do it in 100 images.
21:16.38
Alex Vita
And indeed the common mistakes here are the same shot, one in color, one in black and white on the same website or same subject, multiple angles.
21:17.05
Sam Hollis
hey
21:23.29
Marcus
Oh.
21:25.14
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
21:26.86
Marcus
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:27.12
Alex Vita
You couldn’t take ah make a decision as a photographer. Why should I trust you?
21:30.77
Marcus
Exactly. and no exactly that’s a really I think there’s a slight hang up from years ago when photographers were repped by, well, still are, repped by agents and they don’t have to have any words on their website because somebody else is doing all the work for them.
21:44.14
Marcus
And photographers think, oh, that’s what I need to do. But you don’t. That’s a completely different scenario, having an agent out there working for you.
21:51.88
Alex Vita
Yeah, and that’s rare. Usually photographers, yeah, that’s rare.
21:54.13
Marcus
Rare, very rare, very rare.
21:57.37
Alex Vita
And of course, there are exceptions to what I said. Anyone selling licenses, rights managed, royalty free or selling prints, that depends. Obviously, you can have a vaster archive of prints or stock photography, not to mention that.
22:09.29
Marcus
yeah
22:11.98
Alex Vita
Yeah.
22:14.74
Marcus
very good very good um in fact i’m just about to start i’m just about to put a gallery on mine at website actually to start setting prints i just looked and thought i’ve got so much nice work i never show to anybody that’d be a good place to put it and maybe try and make a bit of coin on it as well you know so easily done
22:31.74
Alex Vita
yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, it it’s really…
22:33.55
Sam Hollis
but But then, Marcus, if you looked at the audience on your website and if they’re because you’re a commercial for you’re a brand photographer, are they shots that brand photographers are going to buy? Because they’re your audience on your website.
22:45.44
Marcus
It’s true, very true. But, you know, just when I’m out and about and people say, oh, can I see, you know, your work and it’s not in a commercial setting, I just thought it’d be somewhere I could send to them. you But you make a good point, Sam. Yeah, it’s all diluting.
23:00.11
Marcus
and Let’s talk about diluting, actually. And yeah this is all great that we can do all these kind of things. But obviously, as a photographer, we’re limited for time. Where do you think, Alex, we should be putting our energy as a photographer who wants to create income?
23:17.31
Alex Vita
Oh, that’s that’s that’s the money question. How do you…
23:20.24
Marcus
Yes, that’s the money question.
23:21.01
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
23:21.60
Marcus
that’s the po We’re back on the porn site again, aren’t we?
23:24.17
Alex Vita
Let me rephrase it.
23:24.75
Marcus
Yeah.
23:25.57
Alex Vita
How do you make more money from photography? That’s the question. yeah
23:29.65
Marcus
Yeah.
23:30.76
Alex Vita
Well, through through all of it, through positioning, through
23:34.22
Marcus
Yes.
23:35.58
Alex Vita
um setting up a good online presence so you you appear professional, through all the marketing channels that are right for you as the photographer. Right.
23:48.22
Alex Vita
Organic traffic that’s in shift as we spoke about in the beginning through Google and AI. ah Paid traffic works for some people, money burning scheme for other people.
23:58.27
Marcus
Yep.
24:01.72
Alex Vita
um Word of mouth referrals, that’s still a strong avenue for many other photographers.
24:04.38
Marcus
Yes, yes, yes.
24:08.52
Alex Vita
And then you also have social media with its big c flaws and Gary V style posting that you need to do these days, which is awful.
24:20.34
Alex Vita
um
24:21.09
Marcus
What’s that mean? Sorry, what does what do you mean by that, Alex?
24:23.13
Alex Vita
Well, it’s social media algorithms. Like um you can’t just do the usual post once a day.
24:30.31
Marcus
Oh.
24:31.74
Alex Vita
You kind of have to keep up a cadence and post often and hashtags and all. It’s it’s not for everyone. I’ve heard from many photographers say they’re sick of social media.
24:42.83
Alex Vita
they if If they could make it go away, they would. It’s not for everyone.
24:46.13
Sam Hollis
yeah
24:47.40
Alex Vita
It’s quantity and poor quality. if video is everywhere now, right?
24:52.46
Marcus
Mm-hmm.
24:52.58
Alex Vita
Schwartz reels, all of that.
24:52.66
Marcus
Mm. Mm.
24:53.98
Alex Vita
It’s not for everyone. You have to develop a muscle to do it. um So, yeah.
24:59.41
Sam Hollis
Cool. So it’s kind of the summary of your answer. Think basically about what you didn’t look at all those options, but don’t just dive into every single one of them actually think and make a plan and do it deliberately.
25:09.05
Alex Vita
Now.
25:13.09
Alex Vita
Correct, correct. And you don’t have to follow all the recipes you find online. It’s not for everyone. But um yeah, you have to explore, you have to experiment, you have to ah dive into AI a bit, even if you’re non-technical and have not used ChatGPT a lot.
25:33.50
Alex Vita
Ask, just to go down this rabbit hole a tiny bit, ask ChatGPT what it knows about you as a photographer. What do you know about me?
25:43.86
Sam Hollis
Hey.
25:44.77
Alex Vita
of And see what it answers and see, one, where’s that incomplete? What it got wrong of you? and then how to write that wrong, right?
25:54.76
Marcus
no
25:55.96
Alex Vita
What can you put on the website and in any other profiles to fix that information about you?
26:02.29
Marcus
Yeah, that’s great.
26:04.34
Alex Vita
Yeah.
26:05.25
Marcus
i i was always It was a slight lead in what I was saying, Alex, because the lead in would have been you can go to your website and you’ve got lots and lots of really excellent articles and downloads and blogs that I have to say are of a very high quality and very informative.
26:12.72
Sam Hollis
ah
26:22.21
Alex Vita
Yeah. And I also have…
26:22.25
Sam Hollis
There we go. And we are coming to the end. So yeah, Alex, if people want to contact you if people want to find that stuff, where do they go?
26:28.74
Alex Vita
Well, they need to check out the pop-up on my website.
26:31.63
Marcus
Yeah.
26:34.77
Alex Vita
No. um Well, my website is foregroundweb.com. um I have like 200 long form articles. Like we spoke about positioning. I have a 10,000 word articles.
26:47.28
Alex Vita
I hand wrote it before AI and it it has everything. ah Courses, newsletter, all of that, all about photography websites. um That’s all there.
26:57.18
Sam Hollis
Perfect. Amazing.
26:59.34
Marcus
yeah
26:59.07
Sam Hollis
That is incredibly helpful. Thank you for yeah providing so much value for the listeners. Thank you for being with us ah today.
27:06.82
Marcus
Yes, thank so much, Alex. It’s not often I’ll say this because Sam knows how much I dislike marketing and all that kind of stuff and techie stuff, but I really, really enjoyed that show. Thank you so much.
27:17.20
Alex Vita
happy to Happy to be here with you.
27:19.98
Sam Hollis
Cool. And Marcus, I will see you next week.
27:23.39
Marcus
See you next week, Sam.
27:26.19
Sam Hollis
Bye.
27:29.45
Sam Hollis
Cool.
