Your website can look fantastic and still send visitors away without a single inquiry. Sam has a simple way of checking why, and it starts with three questions every brand photographer should be able to answer about their own site. Some of the fixes will feel almost too obvious once you hear them, and a few are probably sitting on your website right now. Have it open while you listen.
This episode is also the warm-up for Sam’s Brand Photographer’s Website Challenge, which starts in November with weekly group support and one-to-one sessions to help your site bring in better leads. Spaces are limited, and you can book here
If the design side has you curious, What Website Designers Wish Photographers Knew is the one to press play on next.
00:01.84
Marcus Ahmad
Well, hello listeners and viewers, and welcome to another episode of the Commercial Photographer Podcast. Hello Sam, how are you doing?
00:10.18
Sam Hollis
Hello, Marcus. Excellent. Thank you. How about you?
00:13.56
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah, I’m very well, thank you. Very well indeed. um So you’re going to be talking about websites, I believe, today, Sam.
00:20.45
Sam Hollis
yeah that’s it so obviously something i come back to from time to time so we’re going to talk about your website so i think we’ll be really good in this episode is it as long as you’re not listening in the car get out your website and have a look as we go through kind of.
00:32.69
Sam Hollis
actually look and see what’s there um but yeah i don’t want any car crashes so we’re going to talk about um the people visiting your website um do they like what they see do they find what they need and are they going to take an action before they leave and they’re kind of going to be the three things we’re going to talk about today
00:36.66
Marcus Ahmad
Okay.
00:48.53
Marcus Ahmad
Okay, that sounds great. um I’ve just been working on my website, Sam. As I said, it would be ah over the summer holidays. And so, yeah, I’ll be interested to get some to see what I’ve done. Well, and I’ve done. not so well.
01:01.78
Sam Hollis
Excellent. Sounds good. But you have to focus on the show, Marcus. No opening your laptop in the background again.
01:06.90
Marcus Ahmad
i won’t I won’t do this. I can do it from memory. I’ll try and do it from memory.
01:10.66
Sam Hollis
Cool. Okay. So I’m going to start with do people like what they see? and
01:15.07
Marcus Ahmad
Hmm.
01:15.83
Sam Hollis
And, you know, a pretty website is by no means the be-all and end-all and there are lots of other things. But… people do make judgments on. on what on what they see on you know those instant snap judgments so it is important i was listening to yeah listening to audiobook on the way in the on the way in this morning and it was literally talking about half your brain is wired for or more wired for visual stuff it’s just so key it’s wired into us so a few things about
01:41.76
Marcus Ahmad
o but That’s interesting, Sammy.
01:42.66
Sam Hollis
Yeah, go.
01:43.69
Marcus Ahmad
Sorry, I’ve got a pressure on that. You can’t just let that go. Just expand on that a little bit further, if you may.
01:49.75
Sam Hollis
ah it was it was ah It was actually ah an economics book I was listening to, him but they were talking about diagrams and economics and just saying those sound of those visual things just are wired so hard into so much of your brain.
01:53.70
Marcus Ahmad
Yes.
01:59.73
Sam Hollis
youre kind of So much of your brain is just wired up for visual visual input rather than kind of text or anything else.
02:06.36
Marcus Ahmad
That’s nice to hear
02:08.65
Sam Hollis
There we go. So… A few things to talk about were about the like what you see. The first is the menu. And so many photographers, I have to admit, have really messy menus on their website.
02:19.33
Sam Hollis
You know, a menu should have five, six, maybe seven items at real push. I see a lot of photographers where they’ve clearly over time, they started with four and then are added five. And then there’s like six items plus a dropdown with just a ton more.
02:31.49
Marcus Ahmad
Hmm.
02:31.27
Sam Hollis
And it’s just a mess and nobody can navigate.
02:32.36
Marcus Ahmad
Hmm.
02:33.67
Sam Hollis
And it’s because it’s there at the top. the moment you land it just looks a mess and actually in a twilight later not that many people use the menu but it needs to look neat and for those that do use it it needs to be usable so don’t have 14 items on your menu have you know five or six and you can then have sub parts to that you know that’s no problem but don’t have everything across the top if you’ve got lots of pages because it’s just a mess
02:50.52
Marcus Ahmad
Mm hmm.
02:57.01
Sam Hollis
um And it’s got to be us.
02:58.66
Marcus Ahmad
And the… and And the essential things along the top, Sam, what would you say they are? You’re no doubt going to unpack this, but…
03:04.51
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
03:04.08
Marcus Ahmad
ah
03:05.25
Sam Hollis
um So it depends on you, but certainly services. probably about as… definitely contact definitely home they’re the keys and you know you can have varies beyond that and services i would have sub pages um
03:11.62
Marcus Ahmad
Right.
03:14.27
Marcus Ahmad
Okay.
03:18.06
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah.
03:18.87
Sam Hollis
your website obviously has to look aesthetic and look good you’re a photographer everybody’s website needs to look the part but as a photographer you know especially it’s really got to be visually impactful you can’t look and kind of there’s a half broken picture and it’s a bit of text you can’t quite read over the top and it’s all really narrow because you made it 10 years ago and you know just Make it look.
03:38.50
Sam Hollis
Good. It just needs to… And on mobile too. So loads of people might spend hours prettifying it on desktop and then they go, oh, that’s nice.
03:41.68
Marcus Ahmad
Hmm.
03:44.77
Sam Hollis
But most people loads of people view it on mobile and often then, bang, it’s like it’s a bit of a mess on mobile and you haven’t noticed. We tend to look at everybody else’s website on mobile. and then look at our own on desktop because we’re fiddling with it while we’re sat at our computer.
03:57.37
Marcus Ahmad
Yes.
03:58.51
Sam Hollis
So that’s really easy to miss.
03:58.85
Marcus Ahmad
Yes.
03:59.82
Sam Hollis
So it needs to look good. It needs to be easy to use. um So that’s with the menu and the kind of the structure of the site. So it’s not like, you know, if you want to find one of your services, it takes about.
04:10.91
Sam Hollis
five hours of searching around the text you know it’s got to be obvious what you do what you’re offering and how to get to those services and find out about them and it sounds obvious but you’d be amazed how many websites i go to and i’ve been on 10 minutes And, you know.
04:24.10
Sam Hollis
It’s still not even 100 % sure what they do. Only, you know, if they’re a photographer, it’s relatively clear. But even then, you know, what do you do within photography or photography? It is not always clear. Make sure that is super obvious. Remember, when you’re building stuff for your business, it’s all in your head. you’ve got to make sure it’s clear to other people.
04:40.24
Sam Hollis
Um… So that’s really key. You’ve got to have a good balance of text and images. That’s really important and it’s easy to get that wrong and photographers love. Let me bong on 43 pictures and then the key stuff is underneath and nobody’s going to scroll past those 43 pictures.
04:55.08
Sam Hollis
You’re much better getting two stunning ones than just…
04:55.85
Marcus Ahmad
Yes. Yes.
04:58.26
Sam Hollis
dumping 43 on there.
04:58.99
Marcus Ahmad
Yes. Yes.
05:00.47
Sam Hollis
Um,
05:02.18
Marcus Ahmad
I say that a lot, Sam.
05:02.03
Sam Hollis
And then con…
05:03.38
Marcus Ahmad
I still say it a lot.
05:03.85
Sam Hollis
Yeah. huge people i think see some of the top level photographer sites and the top level photographers are just images but they have agents getting the work for them they don’t have the website doing the work for them so they don’t need that text and stuff while you do
05:05.15
Marcus Ahmad
It’s… Nice. Yes, that’s what it is.
05:12.48
Marcus Ahmad
They’ve got agents.
05:15.76
Marcus Ahmad
No. Exactly right.
05:19.24
Sam Hollis
Um… And then consistency across the site. So many people build their site over time. And then.
05:25.79
Sam Hollis
their pages look completely different from each other because they’ve built them at different times and then the home page doesn’t really relate to the rest of the site because you built that first but since then you’ve built 14 more pages and then the new page looks nothing like the old one so you need consistency so every time you update your site go back through the whole thing and check does the home page still work is everything now all the pages don’t need to be identical but they need to have similar color similar font similar layout so that it’s not jarring and when people change paints they go oh am i really on the same site even which is not that uncommon.
05:57.66
Marcus Ahmad
Well, you know, I mean, so i mean I know you’re a WordPress man, I’m a Squarespace person and I’ve used it for a few years now, but that’s not… this It’s… Easy to set up, really.
06:07.91
Marcus Ahmad
The the the uniformity.
06:08.44
Sam Hollis
That’s it. yeah templates on whatever platform you use it makes it it makes no difference Cool.
06:10.86
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah.
06:13.84
Sam Hollis
So um to help listeners with this, I’m actually um inviting… select few photographers to help me improve their website so i’m going to do a bit of a challenge related to that so it’s about getting your website uh to deliver more quality leads um if you want to be one of those select people that are limited spaces so you need to sign up quick.
06:20.33
Marcus Ahmad
Oh.
06:32.32
Sam Hollis
um Then I’ve got a brand photographer’s website challenge to book on. It’s really easy. Just go to the podcast website and the big orange button there is for that. or it’s just the our website which is commercial hyphen-photographer-podcast .com and forward slash website or look in the links in the show notes or on the newsletter. And yeah, get yourself booked on. It includes ah some…
06:56.55
Sam Hollis
weekly group support and one-to-one sessions and really looking to improve your website.
07:01.48
Marcus Ahmad
That sounds fantastic. So can I clarify, is it for brand photographers only or is it for… different types of photographers.
07:06.70
Sam Hollis
It’s aimed at brand photographers other photographers would get something from but it’s really focused on brand photographers
07:10.31
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah. And when when you’re going to start running this…
07:14.38
Sam Hollis
So that starts in November.
07:14.46
Marcus Ahmad
this
07:15.77
Sam Hollis
It’s basically every Tuesday, November, but the key is. get booked on now because spaces are limited.
07:20.65
Marcus Ahmad
Fantastic. I might have to sign myself up for that one time if I’m making that trip.
07:24.55
Sam Hollis
there we go so and that’s kind of so that will take further what we’ve got here so if you’re listening to things in the show and thinking i need to help with this that is definitely for you
07:25.84
Marcus Ahmad
hey
07:33.33
Sam Hollis
So. The next section I said about the website is find what they need. Can people find what they need? um And obviously the menu, which we’ve already talked about, is part of that. and It needs to be structured well, but we’ve kind of covered that. But the other thing is, and most people don’t realize this, is most visitors don’t use the menu.
07:51.75
Sam Hollis
They just scroll and they see things and they click and they move. So having a website with a structure that works like that is vital. I see so many photography websites where they have the menu that navigates around, but the homepage just talks about all sorts of things and doesn’t have a single link on it.
08:00.12
Marcus Ahmad
Mm-hmm.
08:06.31
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah. Yeah.
08:08.24
Sam Hollis
Your homepage.
08:08.42
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah.
08:09.62
Sam Hollis
The key to me as a homepage is getting people to the right page. Be that the About Us page if they want to find out more about you, or be that to a service page so they can see exactly what you’re offering, or maybe it’s getting them to a blog because you want them to get reading and interested first or to some offer. But the key is that homepage needs to have little snippets of what…
08:27.70
Sam Hollis
different things you offer and different things to place them and send people to the right page do not presume they’re going to look through the menu especially if your menu is a big pile of mess which is really common that home page has to be directing people and even beyond that the next page you need to think about
08:36.36
Marcus Ahmad
Hmm. Mm hmm.
08:43.25
Sam Hollis
What happens here? Do I want to send someone someone somewhere else? Like if it’s the about page, you probably want to then send them onto a service page or do I want to get them to do a call to action and take action? We’re going to talk about those.
08:55.09
Sam Hollis
shortly. slightly further on in the show but that kind of flow of where visitors go is key and so many people miss that and that home page has to go I offer Brian shoots.
09:06.89
Sam Hollis
Go here to find out about it. and Okay, you need a little bit more than that. But you know, that’s the basic message. I offer event photography. Go here to find out and you’re sending them to the right place. Want to find out about me and my story? Go in your…
09:19.66
Sam Hollis
giving them little snippets and sending them to the right place. The homepage is about getting people to the other pages. People often do not use menus.
09:26.70
Marcus Ahmad
That’s interesting, Sam.
09:26.89
Sam Hollis
So that’s really key.
09:28.29
Marcus Ahmad
This is, if I may just, if I may, I mean, this is music to my ears, some hopefully, because um this is what we’ve done on my website. i mean um on the home page. I’ve solved it.
09:39.67
Marcus Ahmad
switch the audio around so i’ve got more of the commercial photography at the top above the fold and then going down to three different doorways really commercial photography branding photography and education And I’ve set up for my education side an offline or a hidden. page which is like a hub where you can basically click you’ve got different windows or different squares you can click on to go to different services within it education
10:04.51
Sam Hollis
Amazing. that sounds good marcus excellent cool um Oh so the next one is blog so you need to think carefully if you’ve got blogs not everyone does but lots of people do
10:11.34
Marcus Ahmad
Yes.
10:13.77
Sam Hollis
how do you want the blog to work in terms of where do you want people to go next so is at the end of your blog are you going to offer a service and talk a call to action at etc we’ll talk about later or from a blog do you want people to go to the services page
10:17.70
Marcus Ahmad
life.
10:24.58
Sam Hollis
or from the services page you want people to go to the blog but the key is don’t do both don’t send people in circles work out which you think you want people to send to first and where next and where it finishes. And that final page is where you have to have clear call to action, where you want them to do something. But think about that journey through rather than sending people in circles. So many websites.
10:43.13
Sam Hollis
send you in a circle where eventually you just get bored of going around the same stuff and you leave So that’s really key. um have a page for each service you offer that’s really important to only just have one service page but have like maybe have a services page and then under that individual services that have their own page where you talk about
11:01.45
Marcus Ahmad
Hmm.
11:01.90
Sam Hollis
what you’re offering, and you’re focusing on outcomes, not deliverables. So how will a brand photo shoot help your business? What will your business look like six months down the line if you’ve had a brand photo shoot?
11:14.30
Sam Hollis
You do need the list of you get. two hours and you get six photos bloody bloody but that’s the small thing the big thing is the outcome What do they get?
11:22.10
Marcus Ahmad
Mm-hmm.
11:22.32
Sam Hollis
What’s the benefit? Not the technical you get.
11:23.69
Marcus Ahmad
Hmm.
11:24.43
Sam Hollis
did Um… Make your contact details easy to… Fine. It is amazing how many people hide their contact details. Oh, I’ve only put a web form. Most people hate web forms. Have one, because some people love them. But also have your email, have your phone number, have your WhatsApp. Make it easy. Some people are like, oh, people might contact me. The wrong people might contact me. Let’s be honest.
11:45.77
Sam Hollis
There were not crazy people out there searching for photographers, trying to contact them and make nuisance calls. You know, it’s more you want to get out there and get found. Get your contact details on there. Have your phone number. Have a button to go to WhatsApp. Have your email. Have a form and have them on.
12:00.12
Sam Hollis
every page make it easy for people to contact you if they can’t find your contact details they won’t bother they’ll go to the next photographer.
12:08.77
Marcus Ahmad
do Do you put a spam bot on your contact page at all, Sam?
12:12.97
Sam Hollis
you Are you… I do on forms that come in. I have a spam filter on forms that come in. But my theory on that is to start with don’t bother. And if you start to get a problem, then worry about it.
12:23.72
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah. Yep.
12:25.12
Sam Hollis
But why would you think about everybody’s obsessed with this? I’m going to get the wrong things. I’m going to get spam. Frankly, what you’re not going to get is leads. Worry about that first. then worry we about you know that worry about the spam and stuff later on it’s easy to deal with once it’s there to put filters in and stuff it’s not a big deal
12:33.27
Marcus Ahmad
Exactly.
12:41.59
Sam Hollis
um get your blog organized so lots of people do a blog and start with you normally blogs just go chronologically don’t here’s the latest one i wrote and there’s the next
12:47.83
Marcus Ahmad
yeah You went all cockney there, Sam. some I didn’t even realise that. You went…
12:50.40
Sam Hollis
Hm?
12:50.62
Marcus Ahmad
you you You went a bit cockney there. Get your vlog organised.
12:53.70
Sam Hollis
Hmm.
12:54.74
Marcus Ahmad
There you go, mate.
12:54.52
Sam Hollis
Get your blog organized, mate.
12:56.46
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah. and
12:56.32
Sam Hollis
Apples and pears. Anyway, um so yeah, get it organized so that… And to start with, they normally go chronological. I mean, four or five blogs or two or three, that’s great. But when you’ve got 50 blogs, the chron chronology…
13:05.89
Marcus Ahmad
Hmm.
13:07.74
Sam Hollis
for 99 % of photographers is totally irrelevant so you then need to start to categorize them and find ways to people to find them rather than having a big pile of blogs because the blog that’s relevant for new visitors might be at the bottom and frankly they’re not going to scroll through five pages to find it. You need to make get that organised.
13:23.56
Sam Hollis
um if What else do we need to talk about? Oh, yeah. One of our favorite markers. Talk about them, not you. Make sure your website isn’t I, I, I, I, I. And this is so common. I am an expert photographer that does this. i do that and people are interested in themselves not you what are you offering them Talk about you, not I. That’s really important.
13:46.65
Sam Hollis
and the text needs to be engaging which is linked to that um and finally on people finding what they need. Do not give too much. detail. So many photographers love this. They go, I can offer you a brand shoot. And you know, the ones that really know that stuff, they go.
14:01.50
Sam Hollis
I have… a brand shoot and i’m there for half a day and you know i really will up the game And then you look at other photographers, it goes, I have a brand shoot and I could be there for half a day. But if you prefer and that’s too long, it could maybe be two hours. But maybe if that doesn’t work, it could be half an hour or it could be a whole hour. But then on top of that, you could get different numbers of and it just like is on and it’s just like a stream of consciousness. And I’ve literally seen websites like that.
14:25.65
Marcus Ahmad
I have to.
14:25.54
Sam Hollis
And it’s just like, no. Just… clear, concise, yes there are all those options. Everybody doesn’t need to know. Then the moment you get to the website, they come much, much further down the line.
14:36.10
Sam Hollis
Do not just dump what’s in your head on the page.
14:39.19
Marcus Ahmad
Mm hmm.
14:39.64
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
14:40.35
Marcus Ahmad
Mm hmm.
14:40.10
Sam Hollis
clear, concise options or people will just like. Give up.
14:45.86
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah.
14:45.98
Sam Hollis
So.
14:46.74
Marcus Ahmad
exactly and and also what about on font size as well sam i do see you know bugbear miners whenever Tiny font he can’t even…
14:53.73
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
14:54.49
Marcus Ahmad
And it’s just loads of words.
14:54.83
Sam Hollis
That’s it. It’s got to be big enough to read. And that’s kind of it’s hard to give an exact size because it depends on the layout. It depends on the font. It depends on the colouring. And, you know, if you’ve got really good contrast and clear and stuff, you can get away with smaller a font than if the colours were a bit close.
15:07.54
Sam Hollis
So it’s kind of variable. But, yeah, you know, find some but find somebody a bit older, Marcus, like us, who needs the reading glasses and check they can read it.
15:13.84
Marcus Ahmad
That’s right.
15:14.73
Sam Hollis
i
15:15.08
Marcus Ahmad
That’s obviously why I’m annoyed by it.
15:17.04
Sam Hollis
but That’s the answer. Um… So yeah, so if any of those are… Any of those things I’ve talked about you think you need to work on, don’t forget to book yourself. on to the challenge. um go to the website to do that and finally taking action So this is the key. You want people to do something before they leave the website.
15:36.30
Sam Hollis
otherwise what’s the point in them being there if they look at it and go he’s a lovely photographer she’s an amazing photographer that’s nice now I’m going to make a cheese and pickle sandwich that’s no good to you okay because they’ve been forgotten by the time they’ve finished their sandwich the key is they do something first so that Then.
15:51.20
Sam Hollis
it makes further things happen So the most important thing on your website really is. Decision is what do you want people to do before they leave? And it’s amazing how many people haven’t even thought of that.
16:03.03
Sam Hollis
you know. Do you want them to? Call you. Book a meeting. you know you’ve kind of deal something email you download a free download node watch one of your videos sign up for your newsletter whatever it is you want people to do something and you might have one or two things don’t have 16 unless your website’s bloody enormous and certainly on one page So the homepage, you can have a few things because you’re sending them to different directions.
16:28.93
Sam Hollis
But once they’re in a page like a services page, maybe it’s a brand shoot page, just have one call to action.
16:29.34
Marcus Ahmad
o
16:34.65
Sam Hollis
Because if you have too many people, you can… you don’t know what to do and they leave. Well, if you have one that you’re consistent with and you’re repeating, they’re much more likely to go, yeah, okay, so it might be on your branding page you you have booking a call.
16:47.15
Sam Hollis
and i’m going to talk about how you kind of sell that a bit and then you repeat that again and again And again, on that single page so that by the time they’ve seen it three or four times, and maybe I’ll book this call and I’ll have a chat with Marcus and that would be really interesting.
17:00.46
Sam Hollis
So, yeah, don’t have too many call to actions. One on a page apart from like a homepage where you’re trying to work out where people are going. um And then once you’ve got your call to actions, you’ve got to think.
17:11.13
Sam Hollis
Is it tempting? You know, were people actually going to want this? Call me. Woo-hoo. You know, not tempting. What are they going to gain from the call? By the end of the call, what are they going to… what’s going to help them in their business that they didn’t know before even though they didn’t buy the photography from you what are they going to have gained from the court what’s beneficial to them that’s why the free downloads are great you know how is this download going to help them in their business you know
17:30.61
Marcus Ahmad
says
17:34.62
Sam Hollis
10 ways to use imaging in LinkedIn to increase engagement. Great. You can see how that’s going to benefit them. They get the download. You get the contact details. Everyone’s a winner. So yeah, it’s got to be tempting and relevant to them and show them why they do it.
17:49.00
Sam Hollis
And it’s got to be. low effort. So many photographers as well put huge forms on. This is my contact form. Name. First name. Second name. Email address. Phone number.
17:59.80
Sam Hollis
How did you hear about me? What sort of service are you interested in? How many pets do you have? Where were you married?
18:04.49
Marcus Ahmad
Heh heh heh heh.
18:04.45
Sam Hollis
bur bur but bur but bur ba but Yeah?
18:06.47
Marcus Ahmad
And they all have to be filled in before it works.
18:06.88
Sam Hollis
um And they all have to be filled in and nobody can be asked. If you notice… Most of the forms on are… on the podcast website if you can go to you know websites where they’re trying to get you to do stuff Name?
18:22.00
Sam Hollis
email address. Maybe phone number. The fewer… fields you have the more likely people are to fill it in why do you need to know all of that information you can ask them once you’ve got their contact detail the key to you is you can contact them to get the contact information.
18:38.55
Sam Hollis
Ask the other questions later. because you’re just putting them off filling in the form. Yeah. So. don’t make it complex the harder it is people to do things the less likely they are to bother um Make your call to action super prominent, so don’t.
18:52.13
Sam Hollis
you know i have seen really good call to actions and they’re in the really small text and and the same color and you know big Change of colour. Big writing. Why do they need to do this call to action? Big button. and repeated. Make it bloody obvious.
19:04.49
Sam Hollis
Yeah, repeat, repeat, repeat. And that, Marcus, I think… takes us to the end of our little chat.
19:11.39
Marcus Ahmad
Cool.
19:11.42
Sam Hollis
about webmaps for today so if
19:12.92
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah, well. Yeah.
19:15.44
Sam Hollis
If again, you having… you’ve looked at this and think maybe my call to actions aren’t great maybe My website could do with some work. book yourself on the challenge. This is for you. It helps you get more leads from your website.
19:27.70
Sam Hollis
there are limited spaces so do book now make sure you get one of those go to the website, link on the newsletter, link in the show notes.
19:36.30
Marcus Ahmad
Great stuff. Thank you, Sam.
19:37.100
Sam Hollis
That’s right. And Marcus, so so um it sounds like you’re going to go away, look at your website and go tick, tick, tick. I have done i have done well.
19:44.12
Marcus Ahmad
Well, I must admit, i was lost a tick yeah no I’m happy. It’s still a work in progress. I’ve still got a little bit more due to it, it’s so as it always is.
19:49.53
Sam Hollis
It’s…
19:51.56
Marcus Ahmad
but now it’s it’s a
19:52.11
Sam Hollis
Well, that’s it.
19:53.26
Marcus Ahmad
I’m looking forward to getting it out there.
19:55.26
Sam Hollis
That’s it. I think that attitude as well of it’s work in progress is a good one to have rather than I have done my website tick. What do I do now?
20:02.59
Marcus Ahmad
Hmm.
20:02.40
Sam Hollis
It’s always a work in progress.
20:03.59
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah. Yeah. Always.
20:05.66
Sam Hollis
Excellent. Good to speak to you, Marcus, and speak it and I look forward to seeing you next week.
20:10.17
Marcus Ahmad
See you next week, Sam.
20:11.85
Sam Hollis
Bye.
20:12.06
Marcus Ahmad
Bye-bye.
