Mastering the Visual Narrative: Being a successful brand photographer requires more than just a good eye; it requires becoming a “visual translator” for your clients. Marcus sits down with Jessica Hanlon to reveal how to move beyond generic aesthetics and build a business based on true identity.
The Investigator Mindset: Discover the pre-shoot research techniques that allow you to capture a client’s specific personality rather than a “same-same” template.
Intimidation-Free Gear: Learn why working with a light gear setup—like a single on-camera flash—can actually build deeper trust and help your clients relax on location.
Strategic Visibility: Tactical advice on how to use AI to refine your marketing “voice” and churn out high-value content that attracts clients who value your unique style.
00:01.14 Marcus Well, hello there, listeners. It’s Marcus here for one of our final shows in the branding photography season. um And I’ve brought in an expert for the show. I’ve brought in Jessica Hanlon, um who’s based over in Sweden, I believe. And she, as I said, is a personal branding photography expert. Hi there, Jessica. How are you doing?
00:22.90 Jessica Hanlon Hi, thank you. I’m good. i am in Sweden. I am based in Stockholm and um I’m actually from the US, so I’m not Swedish.
00:27.54
Marcus
Yes.
00:31.82 Marcus Oh, okay, okay, okay.
00:33.91
Jessica Hanlon
Yeah, yeah.
00:35.26
Marcus
How long have you been in Sweden for then?
00:37.94 Jessica Hanlon So I moved to Sweden in 2015. And when I moved to Sweden, I had like an eight, no, 10 month old and a three year old.
00:47.23 Marcus Oh, wow.
00:47.42 Jessica Hanlon So I had my hands full and I had just been thinking about photography as a career, but I never actually did anything about it.
00:49.56
Marcus
and Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:57.34
Jessica Hanlon
I just always was taking pictures since I was the age of 12.
00:59.38 Marcus Yes. Oh, wow, yep.
01:00.98 Jessica Hanlon And when I was in Sweden, um I got asked to do behind the scene photos for Maria Nilla, which is a hair care product here in Sweden. And it just kind of was an opportunity that landed in my lap. And I was like, really, you want to pay me for taking pictures?
01:17.50 Jessica Hanlon Like somebody actually is asking me to do this. And so i had to open up a business account because they were like, well, we need to pay you this and this and that. I knew nothing about starting a business in Sweden.
01:28.79 Jessica Hanlon Like absolutely nothing. Everything was in Swedish, like setting up the the tax, everything. i was just like completely lost. And I was asking my Swedish husband, how like how do I do this?
01:38.95 Jessica Hanlon And he was also like, I don’t know, like I get my accountant to do all this stuff for me.
01:40.91
Marcus
Oh, no use.
01:43.26 Jessica Hanlon And I was like, I’m like, okay. So he did help me, but it was still like, I was clueless. um And that’s how I started my business here in Sweden. And
01:52.77 Marcus Straight off.
01:53.75 Jessica Hanlon Yeah, so I didn’t speak Swedish. I didn’t know anybody. i had no network other than just like this one person that gave me this opportunity, which was the starting point of like where I am today.
02:04.35
Jessica Hanlon
so yeah.
02:05.48 Marcus Well, you obviously like a challenge. um did Did you get into personal brand photography straight away? Was that something that you just were drawn towards?
02:14.68
Jessica Hanlon
Well, like most photographers, I think we all start off shooting everything.
02:17.69 Marcus m Yeah, in the early days.
02:19.26 Jessica Hanlon And that’s kind of what I did. Yeah. So I started off actually with what I had, like the network I had or whatever people I met. So in the beginning, since I was a mother, i was like, okay, I can do maternity. i can shoot weddings. I can shoot kids. So yeah, I was doing, starting off with that. But then I was like, okay, I don’t like photographing children. Yeah. Even though I have kids myself, I just knew how hard it was. And I was like, this is not for me. I’m not finding joy in this. So I’m not going to do this. And I loved maternity. And I thought like, wow, it’s so amazing to be able to capture this beautiful body and this and that. So I did that for a while. And then eventually I discovered personal branding.
03:01.78
Jessica Hanlon
And i was like, wow, I love this. Actually, my background is in graphic design.
03:06.54 Marcus Aha, okay.
03:06.58
Jessica Hanlon
And that’s what I studied in university. and
03:09.05 Marcus Right.
03:09.72 Jessica Hanlon um I was like, actually, I understand this really well, because as a graphic designer, you do pretty much the same thing, trying to discover what the person’s brand is about and then creating logos and typeface, all sorts of things.
03:17.43
Marcus
Indeed. Yep. Yep.
03:23.06 Jessica Hanlon So for me, that just made total sense. And so I started going in that direction. And I started learning everything I could about branding itself, about marketing.
03:33.89 Jessica Hanlon um And i just got really obsessed with it. And so in Sweden, nobody was really doing that.
03:38.10
Marcus
Yeah. Yeah, great.
03:40.61 Jessica Hanlon I think there were like two other photographers in Stockholm. shooting this, but we all had different photography styles, which was great because, i mean, every person that comes to us is coming to us for a reason.
03:48.60
Marcus
yeah great
03:51.80 Jessica Hanlon Either they like our photography style or they just kind of connected with us. And I think that is the key to being a good brand photographer is like being different than your competitor. Because really, if you follow what other people are photographing and you make it look exactly like the person down the road, it’s really hard for people to choose you as the photographer.
04:12.28 Jessica Hanlon And to me, that was like really important to figure out like what my photography style was and what made me different. And so, yeah, yeah, I think that’s really important to know when you are starting out in this industry, because I think that’s really going to help you to stand out, but also connect with people who want your specific photography style.
04:18.87
Marcus
Excellent, yeah.
04:33.85 Jessica Hanlon So it’s about learning to become very self-aware of who you are. Excuse me. And learning how to um stand out in your own way.
04:44.30
Jessica Hanlon
So basically, that’s what branding is.
04:45.40 Marcus Yeah.
04:46.38 Jessica Hanlon So you have to really do a lot of self-discovery. And I think that’s the thing when people even start businesses and they come to you as like looking for a photographer. They also don’t know.
04:56.84 Jessica Hanlon But the thing is, is they’ve missed all the branding foundations of like what it means to actually run this business, like what they’re about and why they started it. So I think there’s so many things that you have to learn about personal branding to be able to guide people and also do it yourself.
05:12.58
Jessica Hanlon
So that is the key.
05:13.12
Marcus
Yeah.
05:13.98 Jessica Hanlon If you are not like building a personal brand as a personal branding photographer, it’s really hard to connect and understand what people are going through when it comes to actually putting yourself out there and being visible and creating images that stand out for the website or for social media.
05:30.57
Jessica Hanlon
So I think that is really important for you to know as a brand photographer.
05:34.25 Marcus Exactly. Exactly. Jay, know what I think you’ve summed up at all in those few sentences? I think that’s it. Show over and out. No, but seriously, i have got some questions.
05:43.77 Jessica Hanlon there’s so much more to talk about.
05:45.05 Marcus Yeah, I have got some questions just to dig a bit deeper. um Let’s start off with those, even though I think you’ve summed it up superbly already. ah let’s And let’s just go back over what you said. So, Personal branding can easily become about aesthetics, like you said, nice lighting, nice outfits, nice locations. But how do you make sure you’re actually capturing the identity rather than just the style?
06:09.69 Jessica Hanlon Yeah, and it’s I think this is the hardest part um because i I feel like a lot of photographers struggle with this. This is why we see so many photo shoots that look so similar, right?
06:20.61 Jessica Hanlon We kind of go to the basics and it’s really about diving deeper into what people do, but also getting to know the person.
06:21.16
Marcus
mm-hmm.
06:28.98
Jessica Hanlon
And like I go and study the person that I’m meeting.
06:29.67 Marcus Yep.
06:33.07
Jessica Hanlon
So I go and look at their Instagram. I see like how they’re presenting themselves.
06:35.55 Marcus Yep.
06:37.43 Jessica Hanlon Or I look at their competitor and I see like, how can we make this person different instead of making them look so similar?
06:37.75
Marcus
Yep.
06:44.69 Jessica Hanlon Because if they look too similar, then it’s hard for those people to stand out in their own way, right? Because there’s lots of people offering similar things. but we need to find a way to make them different.
06:55.13 Jessica Hanlon So it’s really about being an investigator and diving in um into like who this person is, but getting to know their personality.
06:58.74
Marcus
and Nicely put.
07:02.91 Jessica Hanlon And I call myself a body language reader as like a photographer because basically we’re reading people all the time, right? We can tell if somebody’s uncomfortable. We can tell just in the tension in the body, if somebody is like feeling unsafe or they’re just not letting go.
07:12.38
Marcus
Yes. Yes.
07:20.70 Jessica Hanlon so we have to like work on getting somebody who’s in front of our camera to relax. And sometimes that takes a little bit of work, right? But it’s it’s the same thing with personal branding.
07:28.50
Marcus
yes
07:30.87 Jessica Hanlon It’s you’re learning to read somebody before you even pick up the camera. So it’s about reading body language, reading the person’s personality, but also hearing what they have to say about their business and how they say it. So some people are really soft in the way they present themselves, right? The way they speak.
07:50.74 Jessica Hanlon but the way they dress as well. And then there are people who are a lot more bolder. So you can use those personality traits to bring that out into the photography, into the images and finding spaces that maybe even reflect like the names of their services, their products, because some people are more creative with the terminology.
07:55.61
Marcus
Yes. Yep.
08:13.10 Jessica Hanlon Some people have really cool names for some of their workshops and courses or whatever. And you can use that to your advantage when you’re coming up with concepts and ideas for a shoot.
08:24.66 Jessica Hanlon So I think it’s really important to think about those things, but it’s really about diving deeper and finding ways to show somebody what somebody does or the feeling of what somebody does in a unique way.
08:24.75
Marcus
Mm-hmm.
08:40.12
Jessica Hanlon
um And I think that’s the hardest part.
08:40.24 Marcus Yeah, unique way.
08:42.56 Jessica Hanlon And that’s why we see so much brand photography that looks so similar. You know, you see it all all the time, the same kind of shoots.
08:47.71
Marcus
it
08:51.36 Jessica Hanlon So, yeah.
08:51.53 Marcus it is the hardest yeah so so yeah it It is the hardest part, um but also that’s what makes it so creative.
08:54.18
Jessica Hanlon
No, no. Yeah.
08:57.99 Marcus But it’s interesting what you’re saying there about, yeah I think, you know, as a branding photographer, you’ve got to be able to adapt your style to the person you’re photographing. um I mean, that’s commercial photography, isn’t it?
09:09.62 Marcus So as you say, if you’re photographing somebody who, well, let’s just leave it like that. It’s fairly obvious. The style, you need to be able to adapt your style to a
09:15.32 Jessica Hanlon Yeah.
09:18.99
Marcus
depending on the person you’re photographing and your approach as well. Like you were saying, yeah.
09:23.03 Jessica Hanlon Yeah. And I, I mean, there’s nothing wrong with creating something simple or like doing the same things.
09:23.40
Marcus
yeah
09:29.93 Jessica Hanlon I’m not saying there’s something completely wrong about it, but if we want to push the boundaries of what brand photography can be, I mean, there are some people out there really doing a great job that do some really cool photography that has nothing to do.
09:45.98 Jessica Hanlon Like, it’s not like the literal translation of what the person’s doing. ah It’s like hard to explain without showing like examples, like visually.
09:51.12 Marcus Yeah, no. it’s
09:54.95 Marcus Well, I mean, in your on your website and looking at your images, you do put a strong emphasis on styling.
09:55.67
Jessica Hanlon
um Yeah.
10:03.35 Marcus So how much of a successful shoot is actually about what the client wears versus what the photographer does? How are you influenced by what people are wearing?
10:12.47 Jessica Hanlon I think style is really important. I think that really pulls everything together.
10:16.01
Marcus
Yeah.
10:18.35 Jessica Hanlon um In the beginning, when I first started as a brand photographer, I remember this very clearly and I was so frustrated because you know, I’m one of these people, like, I want to do something really well.
10:30.34 Jessica Hanlon So I would get a client and I was like, yes, I’m super excited to photograph this person. And then they would show up and they’re like, yeah, I didn’t really put much effort. I just grabbed this this morning and ah has like some stain on it.
10:43.89
Jessica Hanlon
And I was like,
10:44.35
Marcus
oh
10:45.98 Jessica Hanlon was so frustrated and I was like, okay, I’m not preparing people enough. So then I had to start working on the preparation. And I started to look for people who I could use to help me with that, like looking for stylists.
11:00.70 Jessica Hanlon Because i i mean, I love fashion and I appreciate style, but i am not a but I’m not a stylist.
11:04.18
Marcus
Yep, I can see that in your website.
11:07.86 Jessica Hanlon And i won’t do that for some people, like for my clients. I won’t go in and like, here is what you should wear. I can give you examples or like pull together maybe a little mood board with some ideas.
11:19.00 Jessica Hanlon But I believe that having a like a stylist there to really use their their skill to help the person really stand out.
11:30.20 Jessica Hanlon is very important. And I think all of these elements that you put into the picture, the lighting, the styling, the makeup, the hair, all of those things impact the photo.
11:42.17
Jessica Hanlon
But
11:42.57
Marcus
100% No.
11:43.54 Jessica Hanlon Some people don’t want the hair and the makeup and that’s fine. I don’t, that part, I don’t really mind so much because i want people to feel like themselves, but I will give them a heads up and say, make sure your foundation is matching, that your mascara is fresh because, you know, mascara clumps and gets like on the skin.
12:03.18 Jessica Hanlon So these are just things that I will prepare them on, but the styling, Yeah.
12:05.77
Marcus
Just general advice, yeah.
12:07.96
Jessica Hanlon
But the styling, I actually connect people with a stylist.
12:07.96 Marcus Just general advice.
12:12.31 Jessica Hanlon Not everybody goes for it because, of course, everybody’s budget is different. um But I try to prepare them, i think, ahead of time, you know, with with an email. I tell them, hey, if you’re going to something, these are different ideas that you could wear.
12:28.09 Jessica Hanlon And I’ll show some examples. But some people, I think the people that actually come to me kind of already have a lot of style.
12:35.96
Marcus
Mm-hmm.
12:36.02 Jessica Hanlon And maybe that’s because of what I’m showing on my website and they can see that in themselves.
12:36.52
Marcus
Mm-hmm.
12:41.10 Jessica Hanlon So i think what you do put out actually is what you will attract in terms of the visuals that you’re putting out there. So I think the people that do come to me, they’re already, they like fashion and they are quite fashionable people.
12:53.65
Marcus
Yeah, yeah, yes.
12:55.42
Jessica Hanlon
Yeah. Yeah.
12:56.25 Marcus i yeah Definitely, i mean, I find that my big influence, the biggest influence is what the people are wearing, and I can easily riff off into different directions depending on what somebody is wearing.
13:08.43 Marcus It’s part of my background, of course, being fashion and photographer and all that. But also, that’s part of the story, isn’t it? That’s part of the visual narrative, what you’re creating. It’s a big part in personal branding, I think.
13:20.44
Jessica Hanlon
Yes, yeah.
13:22.51 Marcus Okay, let’s move on. We’ve got, um when someone steps in front of the camera, are you trying to capture who they really are, or do you help them become a slightly elevated version of themselves? or I think that’s a pretty obvious answer there, but go for any outcome.
13:37.66 Jessica Hanlon Oh, that’s a tough one. um I don’t know what it is.
13:39.01 Marcus That’s a tough one.
13:41.26 Jessica Hanlon i i feel like when i’m a when I pick up the camera, i mean, in the beginning, like, I start to get a little bit nervous myself. So I know that the person is nervous, too.
13:51.61 Jessica Hanlon But when I pick up the camera, I just like, it’s just like an expectation that they’re going to do well. I know that sounds good strange, but in my mind, I’m like, they’re going to do well. It’s fine.
14:02.30 Jessica Hanlon um But I also do talk a lot to them ahead of time. And I try to build as much trust with them before we even shoot, like during the the consultation.
14:12.54
Jessica Hanlon
like the consultation
14:14.33
Marcus
Mm-hmm.
14:14.55 Jessica Hanlon um They have access to me through WhatsApp. So we’re constantly in touch.
14:19.02
Marcus
Gotcha.
14:19.14 Jessica Hanlon I want them to feel like they are in good hands. So that they already feel trust. But I do tell them ahead of time that like, you know, think of yourself as a character.
14:30.84
Jessica Hanlon
And you can do anything in front of me.
14:31.68
Marcus
Mm.
14:32.76 Jessica Hanlon And I won’t care. Like, I want you to feel as free as you can. Because I’m not here to judge you. I’m here to just let you have fun. And this should be a fun process.
14:41.37 Marcus Brilliant.
14:41.93 Jessica Hanlon It shouldn’t be like something that you fear. And of course, not everybody goes along with that. But when they do get in front of the camera, I just try a really hard to um make them feel relaxed. And then I just tell them to move. And I think the more movement that people like do in front of the camera, I think they start to relax because they are already like doing things. So if I feel like somebody is very nervous before the shoot, I will pick…
15:11.35 Jessica Hanlon um action shots first, like where they’re doing something, holding something so that they can start to warm up in front of the camera.
15:14.03 Marcus Yes, get them moving. get the That’s right. Yeah, definitely.
15:20.50 Jessica Hanlon And I usually just tell them these are just warm up photos. So don’t wear your your favorite outfit first. We’re going to have this, you know, these will be nice as well. But like, just know that the first round, you might be a little bit nervous and not as relaxed.
15:32.72 Jessica Hanlon So save your favorite outfit for like a little bit later into into the shoot, you know, and that’s how I get people to, I guess, work with me. Yeah.
15:42.16 Marcus do you do Do you work on location mainly or in the studio? Or do you have a preference?
15:47.83 Jessica Hanlon I do both. um It just depends on what the person wants.
15:49.04
Marcus
Yeah.
15:51.39 Jessica Hanlon I think a lot of people like to choose the studio for some reason because it’s secluded.
15:56.59
Marcus
Hmm.
15:56.73 Jessica Hanlon But like sometimes I try to pick locations they can shoot in their apartment if they like that. They can um book is like a hotel, you know, a room or something.
16:07.43 Marcus Yeah. B&B, whatever, yeah.
16:09.21 Jessica Hanlon But, um yeah, and that’s the struggle that I have here in Sweden is that like the Airbnbs here are terrible. And we don’t have like all these really cool peer spaces like ah the US s has.
16:20.77 Jessica Hanlon So I’ve had to kind of work with what I have and what I have access to.
16:21.13
Marcus
No, that’s right. Yes.
16:25.78 Jessica Hanlon um So, yeah, I mean, i I will go to hotel lobbies and some people will be fine with it and some people won’t be fine with it. And you just like, you know, we, I’m like, okay, maybe we have like five minutes here before somebody says something, but I will ask ahead of time, you know, if it’s okay, if we can shoot here.
16:41.88
Marcus
Yeah, of course. That’s…
16:44.16 Jessica Hanlon um I mean, I’ll message them like not the day of, but, you know, trying to make sure that we have a plan in place so we can actually make sure we can shoot there. But, um, I will sometimes shoot in my own apartment, um, which people have asked for.
17:00.15 Jessica Hanlon and um, Yeah, so I shoot in different places. And when I do, I try to keep it so limited with I don’t like to bring a bunch of gear.
17:03.71
Marcus
You see different places.
17:09.10 Jessica Hanlon I don’t like to bring a big umbrella. I just have my profile.
17:11.83
Marcus
You don’t.
17:12.62 Jessica Hanlon I have a Profoto A1 and I bring it with me and I use the natural light and then I fill with the the flash.
17:14.74
Marcus
Oh, yep. Yep.
17:19.35
Marcus
Okay.
17:19.54 Jessica Hanlon So I’m really like working as light as possible because i think all of that is super intimidating for people who are wanting to be in public and they don’t want to call a lot of attention to them.
17:31.67
Marcus
Yeah, yeah.
17:32.34 Jessica Hanlon And so I’m working as light as possible. But even if I’m shooting on location, I mean, sometimes I’ll like need to use the umbrella if it’s really dark. And in Sweden, we only have like a small window of time to do brand shoots.
17:45.40 Marcus I think you’re probably worse than we are in the UK, really, with the light, I would imagine.
17:47.54
Jessica Hanlon
Oh, it’s so hard. it really is.
17:49.37 Marcus Yes. Yeah.
17:50.06 Jessica Hanlon um i think now things are starting to pick up in April um in terms of brand photography, and it will go until about October.
17:54.22
Marcus
Yep.
17:58.22 Jessica Hanlon And then November starts to get really dark. So if you if anybody really wants that natural light look, then we only have a small window because it gets dark like it.
18:08.97
Marcus
That’s interesting.
18:10.07
Jessica Hanlon
In November, it’s like…
18:11.22
Marcus
Yeah.
18:11.93 Jessica Hanlon I think around three o’clock it’s dark. So we don’t really have that much light.
18:15.90
Marcus
Wow.
18:17.27
Jessica Hanlon
and And then it’s mostly gray.
18:17.59 Marcus Yeah.
18:18.79 Jessica Hanlon We had like the grayest winter um in December. yeah it was horrible. So as a brand photographer, i have a small window.
18:25.67 Marcus It’s a challenge. It’s a challenge.
18:27.47 Jessica Hanlon So that’s why i do shoot other um kinds of work as well to fill in for those times.
18:33.33 Marcus what What do you do then? the chase i but What do you do in those times?
18:35.86 Jessica Hanlon Um, I do a lot of like corporate stuff.
18:36.82
Marcus
and
18:38.30
Jessica Hanlon
So I’ll go in and I, I’ll do, I work a lot with Electrolux.
18:38.81 Marcus Yeah. Yeah.
18:42.42 Jessica Hanlon So I do a lot of stuff with them. Um, and they actually ask a lot for like brand photography for their clients, but I can actually make it look a little bit more corporate with like lighting and flash.
18:56.09
Marcus
And that’s where you bring in the lighting.
18:56.30
Jessica Hanlon
Um,
18:57.49 Marcus Yeah, yeah.
18:58.20 Jessica Hanlon And that’s when I’ll do the lighting. um But like most people who are building a personal brand, not all want like the natural light. Some people want like that high key flash, you know, that looks a little bit different.
19:08.50 Marcus but Well, i like just to butt in there, I do notice on your website that you are actually using that very, it was that 90s flash that I remember using, you know, um which is basically just a small flash on your camera.
19:09.32
Jessica Hanlon
So.
19:19.22
Jessica Hanlon
Yeah.
19:21.40 Marcus It’s very easy. but And with film, it looked very cool. but And that’s come back in fashion. And I noticed you’re using that on your website, that that very high contrast look. It looks good.
19:30.33
Jessica Hanlon
Yeah.
19:30.43
Marcus
Yeah.
19:31.29 Jessica Hanlon Yeah. No, I think the key is to be playful and, um you know, allow yourself to experiment.
19:34.69
Marcus
Yeah.
19:37.90 Jessica Hanlon If you get a client who’s really like excited to try those things, I think that’s also why I did a lot of self-portraits because, know, Or you can also do styled photos, like get a model or something.
19:49.39
Jessica Hanlon
But um I practice on myself because I’m also using those photos for my social media.
19:50.52 Marcus yeah Yeah.
19:56.76 Jessica Hanlon So I think for me, I can actually be an example of what it’s like to do something different, to show people that you don’t always have to stay with the norm.
20:08.41
Jessica Hanlon
So, I mean…
20:08.70 Marcus Exactly. ah That’s a great point.
20:11.06 Jessica Hanlon Yeah, so i I shoot my own self-portraits and i experiment a lot. um And I think that’s the key to like but having like photos that are different that maybe somebody else hasn’t tried out yet.
20:24.92
Marcus
Cool.
20:24.95 Jessica Hanlon and But that’s me. So not everybody’s going to be like me like you know and wanting to do that. but um But for me, I’ve never been the kind of person that can… like stay still. Like I need to try new things in order to be challenged. And i do like a challenge. So, um so yeah, I will do things that are, you know, testing on myself, you know, or I, or I find somebody and I say, Hey, i like what you’re doing. i have an idea. Would you mind if we could do a collaboration?
20:55.29 Jessica Hanlon And then that way i get to build a portfolio piece and and they get something as well.
21:00.92
Marcus
Yeah. Yeah.
21:02.58 Jessica Hanlon So that way i can actually use that as like ah an example of what’s possible. So yeah.
21:12.42 Marcus let’s get back to the questions. um Let’s talk about campaign and riffing off what you just said. Let’s talk about campaign thinking versus like one-off content. ah do Do you see personal brand photography as ongoing content creation or more as building a campaign style asset that gets strategically used over time?
21:35.99 Jessica Hanlon Okay, ah that’s a big question. So I think of content creation as a way to stay up to date in front of your potential clients.
21:47.83
Marcus
Yeah, for sure.
21:48.63 Jessica Hanlon If you want to launch, let’s say, a service or let’s say, i don’t know, I’m just making this up, like a lot of people do mini sessions, right?
21:53.47
Marcus
Yeah.
22:00.04 Jessica Hanlon So you can think of it as a launch and launching is basically a buildup of information for a long period of time, trying to get people to know that this is coming, that I am offering this session and it’s going to be this day.
22:17.18
Jessica Hanlon
But some people need to be warmed up.
22:17.50 Marcus Mm-hmm.
22:18.86 Jessica Hanlon So you have like what is called a launch and you continue to talk about this thing over and over and over until you’re like blue in the face.
22:26.41
Marcus
Yep.
22:26.95
Jessica Hanlon
Most people don’t do that.
22:27.22
Marcus
Yep.
22:28.86 Jessica Hanlon People are too scared to sell. People are too afraid to talk about their services over and over again. oh I’m being too salesy. Oh, gosh, can I shut up? that Half the people don’t see it you know most of the time.
22:39.18 Jessica Hanlon They’re like oh, I missed it. Can I still get in? you know So what we think we’re talking about too much, we’re actually probably not talking enough about.
22:43.58 Marcus Yeah.
22:47.93
Jessica Hanlon
So I think of content creation as something that’s
22:48.66 Marcus That’s interesting.
22:52.18 Jessica Hanlon you know, you should be doing that for your business, for your photography business. But in general, like our kind of like our clients should be too. And so that’s why I said, like, as a photographer, working as a brand photographer, you should know how to do this stuff.
23:06.25
Jessica Hanlon
This is very important because your clients are doing this.
23:07.38 Marcus Yeah.
23:09.78 Jessica Hanlon We need to understand what they need. So some people may not just need a brand shoot. They might need something to help them launch a new service or a new thing coming up.
23:20.87 Marcus Yep.
23:22.52 Jessica Hanlon And they want the photos to match what that’s about. It’s not even about your website. It’s about that one thing.
23:28.92
Marcus
It’s very specific.
23:29.02
Jessica Hanlon
So, yeah.
23:29.83 Marcus Yeah.
23:31.19 Jessica Hanlon And so our clients need us for multiple things. So I do a lot of content creation for some of my clients as well. Um, so in a way, like I’ve learned to be a content creator, marketer, like a lot of this stuff just kind of came with time, but I’ve been doing this now for about 10 years.
23:50.07
Marcus
Yeah.
23:50.23
Jessica Hanlon
So it’s been a while.
23:50.31
Marcus
yeah
23:51.93 Jessica Hanlon um and either you like it or you don’t. So for me, it’s really fun and I love talking about this stuff. So yeah, I think marketing your business is super important.
24:01.69 Marcus I mean, yeah we spoke about this before the show we off air, as it were, um and how I was totally impressed by how much content you do put out and your newsletter and your you’ve got so much going on.
24:17.50 Marcus Can you just give us some advice to our listeners about how they get the work? let’s just I mean, i like I find it difficult to talk about marketing. you You’re so good at talking about it. How how can photographers find work? What’s the best way that you found?
24:34.68 Jessica Hanlon Well, I used to try to put flyers on light posts and that didn’t work.
24:38.50
Marcus
Mm-hmm.
24:41.32 Jessica Hanlon ah So I came a long way from from that time period. But now it’s really just about showing people how you can help them, talking about your services and not saying here, buy from me, but like show people.
24:57.88 Jessica Hanlon And in the beginning, if you’re just starting, it it is a bit trickier, right? Because you don’t have… that portfolio. But I would say invest in somebody to come and create content for you and use that content over and over.
25:12.70 Jessica Hanlon doesn’t matter if it’s the same person and just show them like the result of the outcome.
25:13.72
Marcus
Yeah, yeah.
25:18.55 Jessica Hanlon So show them the behind the scenes, show them the outcome, talk about your services and how you help people, how theyll you you’ll guide them, what makes you different than the person that’s another brand photographer.
25:30.71 Jessica Hanlon so It’s about coming up with different ways to to say what you do in multiple different ways.
25:39.08
Marcus
Gotcha.
25:39.42 Jessica Hanlon And you can just turn that one piece of content into other ways of doing it. You can use a reel. You can use ah carousel posts.
25:46.30 Marcus Yeah.
25:47.70
Jessica Hanlon
You can still use the same information.
25:48.09
Marcus
Yes.
25:50.58 Jessica Hanlon um And then i use LinkedIn. I use TikTok. Not all the time. And I use mostly Instagram.
25:56.40
Marcus
OK.
25:58.10
Jessica Hanlon
And then blogging.
25:58.78 Marcus Oh, really? that’s still big That’s where you put you most of your eggs, or in that basket, the Instagram basket.
26:02.55 Jessica Hanlon Yeah, and Instagram. And then um I do blog. So how do I come up with all this info?
26:10.79
Marcus
Mm-hmm.
26:11.90 Jessica Hanlon um When I’m cleaning the house or when I’m on a walk, I get hit with ideas. And I think… um If I’ve listened to a podcast and I get an idea, I’m like, ooh, I pause and I type like talking to my notes app and I’ll just riff on what idea came to me or how I could talk about something and then…
26:35.29 Jessica Hanlon Either I’ll clean it up or I’ll just put it into chat GPT or you can put it into whatever AI you want to use now. And I just say, can you just make this sound better, like refined, like so it doesn’t feel like a mess.
26:41.72
Marcus
Yep. Yep.
26:46.65
Marcus
Yes. Yes.
26:49.78 Jessica Hanlon And then I’ll just use that. And that’s how I started to really just churn out content. And so it’s a lot of listening and reacting. But I think as a like a brand, a personal brand, it’s really about having opinions and a voice and being um a leader in some way.
27:10.33
Jessica Hanlon
And I think that’s the hardest part when you’re building a personal brand.
27:10.33 Marcus Yeah. How do you… yeah Yes, how can i press you on that? kind How do you become a leader in the personal branding space? How do you how do you do that? You obviously see that you’ve been doing it for a long while.
27:23.67 Jessica Hanlon um I don’t know. It’s hard to say that about yourself.
27:26.28 Marcus It’s a hard one, yes.
27:28.60 Jessica Hanlon Because I don’t know if I’m a leader. I’m just… i guess for me, i started to find my own voice with time because when I first started building my personal brand, i had so much I wanted to say, but I was too afraid to say it.
27:50.20
Jessica Hanlon
Like my perspective of what I think about brand photography was too scary to tell people.
27:52.21 Marcus Yeah, yeah.
27:56.25 Jessica Hanlon Like a lot of people say niching down, you should niche down as a photographer. I’m like, why? why
28:03.19
Marcus
yeah yeah
28:03.26 Jessica Hanlon When people come to you and they came to you for your family photos and your wedding ah and they can say, hey, I started a business. Can you photograph me? Why would why would I want to like close the doors to these different opportunities? So I don’t think it’s about niching down.
28:20.28 Jessica Hanlon But I’m going to go on a tangent and go off. But what I’m saying is, is like having a voice and actually trusting that you have an opinion and and knowing that what you’re saying is might piss somebody off or offend somebody or or somebody might agree with me.
28:34.26
Jessica Hanlon
And that’s the whole point is to do that.
28:34.58 Marcus Yeah.
28:36.26 Jessica Hanlon But in the beginning, I was too afraid to do any of that. But I think as time went on, I started to develop that. But that was through practice. And I think having a podcast allowed me to play with that and not be afraid.
28:51.42 Jessica Hanlon And now I feel enough confidence in myself to actually speak what I think about the industry. So it took different steps and levels to get there.
29:02.65 Jessica Hanlon So I don’t know if I would say I’m a leader. I’m just saying like I’m owning my own personal voice now.
29:08.87 Marcus I think you you’ve got you you’ve hit that you fit the nail on the head there, Jay.
29:08.91
Jessica Hanlon
Yeah.
29:12.02 Marcus You’ve but you basically got to put the work in. And if you put the work in and you build you you build up your confidence by putting that work in and taking knockbacks and moving forward, et cetera, et cetera, that’s what gives you that voice and that stronger voice, isn’t it?
29:24.49
Marcus
Not just about your content, but also photographically as well.
29:25.34
Jessica Hanlon
yeah
29:29.66 Jessica Hanlon Yeah.
29:29.67 Marcus I’m sort of gone off piste a little here, but we spoke at the beginning of the show about the, you know, photography is a difficult thing to get into, branding photography in particular.
29:40.90 Marcus You’ve got to put the work in. It’s not you can it’s it’s it’s very easy to follow the flock and just do what everybody else does, but find your own voice takes time.
29:49.98 Jessica Hanlon Yeah, it it does. And I think if you just keep practicing what your opinions are and take like a stance on what you think, I think more people will will feel that and like relate to you.
29:55.10
Marcus
Yep.
30:03.55 Jessica Hanlon And that’s how you start to connect with other people that actually value what you have to say. um So I guess, yeah, going back to a leader? I don’t know if I am. I’m just kind of starting to step into my own opinions and trust that. But it took me a long time.
30:19.38
Jessica Hanlon
So, yeah.
30:19.45
Marcus
Yeah, it does take, yes.
30:21.18 Jessica Hanlon Yeah.
30:21.72
Marcus
Okay, look let’s let’s I think that’s been youve been very, very candid.
30:21.92 Jessica Hanlon Oh.
30:24.92 Marcus And let’s just wrap it up then with that. yeah What you think is coming next in branding photography, in personal branding photography?
30:33.66 Jessica Hanlon Oh, that’s a tough one. I mean, it’s changing so much.
30:38.55
Marcus
Yes.
30:38.62 Jessica Hanlon In the beginning, like in 2016, it was one kind of look, very clean lighting, people holding coffee mugs and sitting on the sofa.
30:48.50
Marcus
Yes, yes.
30:49.98 Jessica Hanlon And I get it. We all had to start from some sort of base and then people started to evolve it.
30:53.40
Marcus
Yes?
30:55.74 Jessica Hanlon And it’s gotten much more um interesting, to be honest. Like I’m seeing really interesting shoots coming out now that are sometimes not even, they don’t have anything to do with like personal branding, like style photography.
31:10.03
Jessica Hanlon
It’s just a feeling or a mood. So I think a lot of
31:17.85 Jessica Hanlon I think there will be different phases of different looks that will come in and come and go, you know. But it’s hard to say if there’s like one thing right now, but I do see a lot of more conceptual brand shoots at this time really happening.
31:33.24 Marcus I think you’re right. I think it’s going to become more conceptual, definitely. More more avant-garde, more more open.
31:37.43
Jessica Hanlon
Yeah.
31:39.76 Marcus I think we’re going to see more darker, you know, but maybe a bit moodier, maybe photographs taken in the evening or at night time, you know, to give that vibe as well.
31:48.09
Jessica Hanlon
Yeah.
31:49.02
Marcus
or Yeah. Yeah.
31:50.55 Jessica Hanlon Yeah. So I think there’s a lot of things that are possible. And I think that’s really cool because i don’t think there’s a ah right or wrong way to do personal branding.
31:55.38
Marcus
Yes.
31:59.98 Jessica Hanlon I think it’s can be anything. And that’s the cool part about like being a creative is that like, Don’t limit yourself. Don’t think that I have to shoot brand photography in this way.
32:12.98 Jessica Hanlon If you ah like shooting in a certain way that’s, you know, very unique and different, use that to your advantage because there’s always somebody out there that wants something from somebody.
32:23.38
Jessica Hanlon
And when they see it, they will know.
32:23.94 Marcus I agree.
32:25.90 Jessica Hanlon Um, for instance, I have a podcast called the elevate podcast and I started that for entrepreneurs and I was just sharing stories.
32:31.35
Marcus
yes
32:35.86 Jessica Hanlon My first podcast image cover was quite bad, but I just threw it together. But with time I started to figure out like, okay, i know what I want this to feel like. I want it to look like this. And so I found this girl in Stockholm that is a fashion photographer and she only does like beauty and all this stuff um that’s more like fashion.
32:57.02 Jessica Hanlon And i saw a photo that she made and I was like, this is exactly the way I want this image to look. It has nothing to do with being in a space or anything. It’s just the way the lighting was. And it gave that feeling and emotion of like what I wanted the podcast to evoke for people when they listen to it.
33:16.44 Jessica Hanlon And that’s really what it was about. Just the feeling. It wasn’t a literal thing. It was just me smiling. But I had the lighting, the way I wanted it to look. I wanted the the styling, the makeup, all of that. So it was really just about the feeling. So it doesn’t always have to be literal of like what we’re doing for people.
33:36.15 Marcus Yeah, yeah, yeah.
33:36.31 Jessica Hanlon um And it’s hard to speak it without because I’m ah more of a visual translator. So I like to use examples when I’m like talking about stuff so I can show people what I mean. But there’s ways to show what people do or the feeling that people can have when they see your pictures.
33:54.23 Jessica Hanlon There’s like a way to do that where it’s not just the literal translation.
33:59.29
Marcus
yeah Yeah, you’re digging deep you’re digging deeper.
34:00.28 Jessica Hanlon Yeah.
34:03.37 Marcus Jase, unfortunately, we’re sort of running about time here. which i what can How can our listeners find out a little bit more about you?
34:11.29 Jessica Hanlon Um, yeah, you can find me at Jessica Hanlon.com. That’s my website. And all of this information is there, like my podcast and stuff. I also have a secret podcast for ah photographers who want to work on finding their visual edge.
34:26.73
Jessica Hanlon
So i have that as well.
34:27.54
Marcus
Oh.
34:29.13
Jessica Hanlon
And that’s on my website.
34:29.39 Marcus Oh, okay.
34:31.21
Jessica Hanlon
So you can find me at Jessica Hanlon photography on Instagram.
34:35.64 Marcus Yes.
34:35.90 Jessica Hanlon And I have all that info in there as well. So you can find those things.
34:39.83 Marcus And you’ve got some workshops coming up, I believe. Did I read that on your website?
34:44.18 Jessica Hanlon Yeah, so I’m hosting a online workshop for brand photographers. And this is really more about like the concepting part of brand photography and how to like lead a brand shoot from the beginning to end.
34:57.27
Marcus
Yes.
34:57.69 Jessica Hanlon And I think a lot of people struggle with this part. I actually have a course called Break Into Brand Photography. And when they take that course, they get into this part of like creating concepts and ideas. But I felt like, you know, some people don’t want to buy a full course. So i was like, you know, let’s just do the workshop, which is actually around leading the shoot, coming up with concepts and translating ideas.
35:22.04 Jessica Hanlon And so there I’ll be more visual and show people examples of what I mean. But it’s a it’s going to be a workshop where I’m showing people how I do it and I’m giving them access to how I’m running that side of my photography.
35:27.89
Marcus
Cool.
35:38.68
Marcus
Perfect.
35:39.03
Jessica Hanlon
So, yeah.
35:39.22 Marcus Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much, Jess. Thanks for being part of our show.
35:43.73 Jessica Hanlon Yeah, thanks for having me. This is a really fun conversation.
35:46.81
Marcus
Nice one. Thank you.
35:48.31
Jessica Hanlon
by
35:49.97
Marcus
Bye-bye.
