“Watch the Podcast”
“Listen the Podcast”
“Show Notes”
The Challenge: Every Commercial Photography session starts with a client saying, “I hate having my photograph taken.” The Solution: Expert listener Colin Smith reveals the Commercial Photography Skills that help you immediately build trust, relax your subject, and capture authentic emotion.
• The 10-Minute Mindset: Discover the specific psychological framework you must adopt upon arrival to master Photographer Rapport Building even before you pick up the camera. •
The Golden Prompt: Learn the single, magic sentence you can use while shooting that shifts the client’s focus and unlocks genuine expression for the perfect photo.
• The Inner Practice: Find out the counterintuitive 10-minute listening exercise you can practice at home to instantly improve your essential Commercial Photography Skills
“Show Transcription”
00:01.23
Sam Hollis
Hello, Marcus. How are you doing?
00:04.16
Marcus Ahmad
I’m very well, thank you. How’s yourself?
00:06.81
Sam Hollis
Very good. Very good. And excited for this new show, we have one of our favorite guests. Well, one of our favorite guests. Back again, we have Colin Smith, the listener with us. Hi, Colin.
00:19.45
Colin Smith
hi Hi, Sam. Hi, Marcus. Good to see you both. And delighted to be back with you guys.
00:22.94
Marcus Ahmad
Hello there.
00:26.94
Sam Hollis
Thank you.
00:27.21
Marcus Ahmad
lovelyly Lovely, lovely.
00:27.80
Sam Hollis
And yeah, last time we had kind of a wide ranging discussion. We talked to all about listening and and it it applies to all sorts of ways in photography. But this time we’ve had a bit of a chat aren’t when we’ve kind of got, i think, a bit more of a focused discussion this time.
00:41.72
Marcus Ahmad
Indeed, indeed.
00:41.82
Colin Smith
Yep,
00:42.80
Marcus Ahmad
in fact In fact, focused is a good word, Sam, because we’re going to direct it straight into photography and how Colin’s skills can be applied to us as a photographer.
00:52.85
Marcus Ahmad
If that’s okay with you, Colin.
00:54.98
Colin Smith
I’m very happy with that. um So i I come to this speaking from a number of angles. One is that I’ve been a sitter. So I’ve had the benefit of a good photographer come to see me.
01:07.28
Sam Hollis
Hang on a second, Colin. Marcus, we haven’t actually said we’re going to talk about what we’re going to talk about.
01:12.54
Marcus Ahmad
yeah I know.
01:12.95
Sam Hollis
go know Just because Colin’s answering it, that was all in it.
01:13.91
Marcus Ahmad
was just back it’s about to do that. i Yeah, but i think that’s okay. I think we’re i think he’s going to go to it, actually. I think from what was saying.
01:22.97
Colin Smith
it
01:23.35
Sam Hollis
Okay.
01:23.70
Colin Smith
again Tell me what…
01:23.84
Marcus Ahmad
yeah.
01:25.41
Sam Hollis
Well, I think it will be good, Marcus. You make it really clear what we’re going to talk about then. I think that would be really good for the edit.
01:29.37
Marcus Ahmad
Okay.
01:30.22
Sam Hollis
Sorry.
01:32.18
Marcus Ahmad
Okay. Let’s start off again. Okay. So… Yeah, and so focus, that’s a great word to use, Sam, because really on this show, I want to use Colin’s skills and apply it particularly to a photography session. Let’s just take an average session that I would do and most of our listeners would do, which would be a portrait in a studio or on location. And you’re dealing with a client for the first time. You might have spoken to them, but this is the first time you’ve met them, Colin. So the first thing that they always say to me when they come in, oh, I hate having my photograph taken. Oh, if I had a pound for every time someone said that to me. How do I deal with that situation?
02:14.39
Colin Smith
Such a good question.
02:15.64
Marcus Ahmad
Thank you.
02:15.67
Colin Smith
And I’m also guilty of that. um Very difficult to have have people come and take pictures of me. But the key, I think, is how do we build the rapport with them relatively quickly?
02:31.32
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah.
02:32.28
Colin Smith
At the same time as knowing that it’s to be done, being there with the sense of what I call ease, which is i’ve got all the time in the world for you and the other one which is a focus I make with my listening as at this particular moment for example you two are the most important people in my life at this moment now right now obviously you’re not but but the sorry about that but
02:41.86
Marcus Ahmad
Mm-hmm.
02:44.73
Marcus Ahmad
Yes.
02:55.86
Marcus Ahmad
ah Aww.
02:58.94
Marcus Ahmad
Oh, oh, damn.
03:01.59
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
03:03.32
Marcus Ahmad
Guys, I was getting all sentimental then.
03:05.59
Colin Smith
Yes, but but the reality is that’s the intention I have, right?
03:08.60
Marcus Ahmad
Yes, yeah.
03:10.53
Colin Smith
so and And I appreciate that photographers move from picture person to person to person, but for this moment, they are the most important.
03:10.47
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
03:19.06
Colin Smith
They are, sorry about the cliche, they are the one in the frame, right?
03:21.98
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah, a nice, nicely put. Yes.
03:23.78
Colin Smith
And so the right from the moment we’re walking up to their location or they they they’re about to come in, start dropping away my stuff.
03:36.18
Colin Smith
Right? This is not about me.
03:38.06
Marcus Ahmad
Mm-hmm.
03:39.19
Colin Smith
This is about them.
03:41.16
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
03:41.46
Colin Smith
And the more we can get them to feel comfortable or create a condition where they feel comfortable, you both know, as does all the photographers, we’re going to get some great photos.
03:55.06
Colin Smith
And it’s it’s the same when we work with children. You can’t just rock up with children and start taking pictures. So for example, when when I go to see my 18 month old, who I’ve seen many times, it can take anything between 10 and 15, 25 minutes before he moves away from his mum and he comes to me.
04:14.64
Marcus Ahmad
Oh, right. Right.
04:16.00
Sam Hollis
yeah.
04:16.31
Colin Smith
right So anything I do to try and pressurize him is gonna pull a defense up. And I think that’s true for us as well. I think there’s also the um the other idea is about meeting them where they’re at.
04:32.06
Colin Smith
And if I arrive and i use this metaphor of typically two people, and usually this is what’s happening with them, right? No one’s connecting.
04:41.88
Marcus Ahmad
right so Sorry, just just for our listeners out there, Colin is moving both hands rapidly in an agitated fashion.
04:42.76
Colin Smith
Oh,
04:45.16
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
04:46.45
Colin Smith
sorry. So, i right. So, ah thank you. I’m sorry, I’ve got, I forget. Yes. So what i what I use is my two hands with my fingers out, spread out, and they’re trying to connect to each other.
04:53.84
Marcus Ahmad
No, that’s cool. It’s cool. Yeah.
05:00.31
Marcus Ahmad
Right.
05:00.92
Colin Smith
And typically what happens is that the hands in this case, or the people’s minds and thinking is going in all sorts of different directions. Whereas if I arrive with my hands still and calm and ready to receive the other, now the other one will be all over the place, all over the place and all over the place and gradually they arrive.
05:26.10
Sam Hollis
yeah.
05:26.42
Colin Smith
And when they arrive and connect, then we can start.
05:26.40
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
05:30.39
Colin Smith
So for me, if you arrive into the house where you this is the location um and there’s chaos around, we’ve got to help them settle.
05:34.04
Marcus Ahmad
Yes. Yes.
05:41.21
Colin Smith
So our steadiness of our arrival, our presence, our no stuff for me, even though there’s loads of stuff going on for me, and I’ve got it i put it to one side, I’m then able to be with them
05:53.18
Sam Hollis
yeah
06:01.82
Colin Smith
for them to settle. And you’ll know when they’ve settled. Because,
06:05.30
Marcus Ahmad
this is stuff sorry This is the first initial meeting, isn’t it we’re talking about? This is at the doorway, as it were.
06:09.14
Colin Smith
yes, yes, because you you don’t know what you’re gonna get the other side of the door. We don’t know what’s going on for them at this moment.
06:16.66
Sam Hollis
Okay.
06:20.70
Colin Smith
And so how do i arrive in my way such that they start to meet me? When they start to meet me, everything changes. You’ll notice that their voice changes. They settle.
06:35.42
Colin Smith
It slows down. It’s lower. they’re They’re less agitated. They don’t move around so much. They’re more focused. You start to get eye contact.
06:47.03
Colin Smith
And when you know that, then we’ve arrived. We’ve
06:50.69
Marcus Ahmad
Right.
06:51.50
Colin Smith
Right, they’re now in a much better position to respond to any questions which might be about, let’s just go through what I understand you said to me last time when we spoke. It’s we’re looking at this, this and this and this.
07:04.73
Sam Hollis
So presumably, Colin, while you’re doing that settling, the absolute worst thing to do is to start to ask about the shoot and talk about that.
07:05.02
Colin Smith
Has anything changed? Go on.
07:12.56
Sam Hollis
So you’re just trying to connect and calm them and yeah, before you move on to the kind of the the practical stuff.
07:12.98
Colin Smith
Yes.
07:15.70
Colin Smith
Yes.
07:20.63
Colin Smith
Yes, I had a coaching client who was always late. um So I’d ring him about five past and say, how are you getting on? He said, I’m on my way, I’m on my way. And then he’d literally run down to the coffee shop and it could be anything between 15 to 20 minutes before he settled.
07:37.65
Sam Hollis
care.
07:38.16
Colin Smith
Now, typically that’s, this it’s and and slightly unusual, but it’s the same scenario.
07:41.28
Marcus Ahmad
Yes.
07:42.52
Colin Smith
So now you’re in a position where they’re more respond responsive to the questions you ask
07:49.37
Marcus Ahmad
yes
07:50.07
Colin Smith
Just make sure we’re still on the same page. um And also be be honest, pick up, I’m just picking up that this may not be the best time. And they you’re right, this has just happened.
08:05.05
Colin Smith
Okay, and the kindest thing we can do, no worries, I’ll come back. Or is there anything you need to do to bring you into that space?
08:14.20
Marcus Ahmad
Mm-hmm.
08:16.76
Sam Hollis
As long as you’re not a wedding photographer, maybe. but Yeah. Yeah.
08:19.45
Marcus Ahmad
he
08:19.86
Sam Hollis
okay
08:20.28
Colin Smith
Exactly. Yes.
08:21.11
Marcus Ahmad
ah well
08:22.23
Colin Smith
Well, we’d like to think that everyone’s arrived at the wedding. um But again, in preparation for the wedding, there’s an awful lot of work has been done beforehand so that everyone is is more comfortable for it. So once you’ve got the rapport, once you’ve got them settled and you’re starting to build that rapport, then you can ask lots more questions. This is what we talked about. So it shows that you remembered.
08:45.62
Marcus Ahmad
Mm-hmm.
08:45.98
Colin Smith
or you’ve had it written it down. So they feel actually, yeah, it remembers me, which is another important step in building that connection and that trust.
08:58.03
Colin Smith
What’s also true is they will pick up your intention So if my intention is to come in and get this job done, get out, etc.
09:06.49
Sam Hollis
All right.
09:07.62
Colin Smith
They’ll pick it up. And so they’re on edge as well. But if you have this this lovely ease, which is even though you know you’ve got other things to do, they’re the most important.
09:18.56
Colin Smith
I’ve got time. i have time for you. And in
09:22.23
Sam Hollis
So other ways people can get that across, because some people find that hard, don’t they, to get. So if that doesn’t come naturally to and you find it hard, are the things you can say, things in your body language you can do to to help put across that impression if maybe you’re not quite confident, you know, about that?
09:40.02
Colin Smith
Very good question. and And you’re absolutely right. So the in terms of the body language, when you’re, you may be sitting there having a cup of tea, but I’ve got my arms closed, legs are crossed.
09:52.70
Colin Smith
i’m I’m tense, right? We pick it up. So open open up. um Open up with your arms. Open up.
10:03.90
Colin Smith
Open up with the legs, you know i mean? So look comfortable where are you’re sitting and also lean in, right?
10:12.54
Marcus Ahmad
Okay.
10:12.61
Colin Smith
I’m interested in in what you’re saying, genuinely interested in what you’re saying, because we we pick it up from our own, there’s something not something not right.
10:19.12
Sam Hollis
Thank you.
10:23.94
Colin Smith
It’s almost like they turn it back to you say, is everything okay for you? and you go, yes, sure, I’m fine. But yeah, um so it’s a good question, good question.
10:30.04
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah.
10:33.66
Colin Smith
And so the more you’re able to ask them questions, reassure them that, yes, this is what we’re going to do, um is there anything specific, any questions you have, any concerns you have?
10:45.69
Colin Smith
So again, I’m making it about them, not me. Okay, now, so now I understand you.
10:49.14
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah, yeah.
10:51.49
Colin Smith
It’s this, this, this, and this. Right, this is how I’d like to proceed. And we’re going to go and do this. In my case, I needed for photos of me from a business but perspective and me for all to putting onto a dating site.
11:04.90
Marcus Ahmad
Gotcha.
11:05.62
Colin Smith
Right, so he’d already…
11:06.62
Marcus Ahmad
Two different things. Two different things indeed.
11:08.73
Colin Smith
Right. And so because he’s a professional photographer, he knows the type of situation. So he might even be talking in a more business style,
11:19.56
Marcus Ahmad
Mm-hmm.
11:20.22
Colin Smith
while we’re doing the business pictures. He might say, you know, we’re gonna do shirt and tie, gonna shirt and jacket. What what is it that types of pictures? Okay, we’re gonna do that. And then looking around, he might say, m maybe I’m not sure that the um the white goes with the black so well. Apparently there’s some sort of color dynamics to go with those two.
11:40.98
Colin Smith
So he might make suggestions, he or she might make suggestions of different types of things for us. And then similarly, when we’re maybe go outside and take some photographs of the dating site, then it’s a different ah dress, maybe different um tone of language that he or she may be, right?
11:58.36
Marcus Ahmad
Gotcha, yes.
11:59.59
Colin Smith
Let’s make it a little bit more amiable,
12:02.55
Marcus Ahmad
Setting the scenario in a different way.
12:04.76
Colin Smith
Yes. Right. So because the the way we so we show up in the business is going to be very different for the way we be could be quite starchy in the business world. But actually, for the dating site, want more a relaxed look about about us. and And the more that you can make it, even though you know you’re in control of it, the more they feel that they’re in control helps them as well.
12:30.21
Marcus Ahmad
Indeed, indeed.
12:31.54
Colin Smith
Because at the end of the day, the more they can settle, the more they can relax, the more they can chill and enjoy the experience, the better the the photos are going to be.
12:31.54
Sam Hollis
Thank
12:43.25
Marcus Ahmad
Colin, I’m a bit of a people pleaser, well maybe a big people pleaser, and I tend to go down the route of flattering people. And, ah you know, and back in the day when I was working fashion, that was all fine and it was all the the way it was done.
12:58.14
Marcus Ahmad
I do worry a little bit these days whether it’s appropriate. I don’t know. It’s a tricky one. But I do go down the flattering route.
13:03.42
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
13:05.12
Marcus Ahmad
would normally say, oh, by I really like what you’re wearing. ah you Your hair looks great or whatever it might be.
13:10.60
Colin Smith
Yeah, I think there’s, think think it’s such a good point because it it’s ah it’s like a fine line between you’re just saying that.
13:22.51
Colin Smith
don’t Don’t patronize me, right?
13:23.83
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah, yeah.
13:25.21
Colin Smith
But by then, if you’ve done all the other work, you’ll know who they are. you’d be much more comfortable with who they are, what they’re doing, how they think, how they feel, and what’s appropriate.
13:36.60
Colin Smith
And it might be as it’s underneath.
13:36.66
Sam Hollis
Is it also to do with the intent that we think is behind, say, and how you get that across?
13:40.60
Colin Smith
Yeah. You know, Yeah. And so maybe the appropriate language or the appropriate words and not be gushy because it sounds awful.
13:45.63
Marcus Ahmad
Right. Yeah.
13:53.46
Colin Smith
And in fact, I was talking to Molly, my wife, about this call. And um you know from her perspective, it’s nice to have compliments paid, but they need to be genuine.
14:04.79
Marcus Ahmad
Genuine, of course.
14:05.91
Colin Smith
right And I think we can always find good things.
14:06.61
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah. Yeah.
14:09.30
Colin Smith
you know i can I can see your…
14:10.74
Marcus Ahmad
That’s your skill as a photographer. Sorry. That’s your skill as a photographer to find good things or interesting things in your subject.
14:17.62
Colin Smith
Yes. And so i’m you know it might be I’m just picking up a real positive essence coming up out from you. And people can’t argue with that. you know it’ So is it’s those subtle things that we can give them the compliments that just lift them up a little more.
14:36.76
Colin Smith
And as you say, because the starting point is we don’t like having our photos taken.
14:37.62
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah.
14:40.24
Marcus Ahmad
That’s right.
14:41.11
Colin Smith
Right?
14:41.30
Marcus Ahmad
You need to be, yeah, there needs to be some kind of confirmation bias going on in there.
14:45.85
Colin Smith
Yeah. So, you know, they’ve they’ve got to, so the moment it’s over the top, you go, ah yeah, you’re just doing this over the top. That’s my my thoughts on it.
14:56.41
Marcus Ahmad
Okay, Sam, I’m aware that I’m sort taking over a little bit here. ah Have you got anything?
15:00.95
Sam Hollis
No, it’s fine.
15:01.98
Marcus Ahmad
Okay, cool.
15:01.91
Sam Hollis
Yeah, no. So I think I think we’ve kind of really nicely talked a lot, haven’t we about about that initial, initial listening, I guess part of it then is, is how you make sure you carry that on while getting the job done.
15:07.73
Marcus Ahmad
The initial, yeah.
15:14.87
Sam Hollis
So you can kind of sit and go, okay, I can take the
15:16.95
Marcus Ahmad
Exactly. That’s the question I was gonna ask Sam.
15:17.82
Sam Hollis
But next we’re picking up the camera and we’re doing so.
15:18.83
Marcus Ahmad
Perfect.
15:21.41
Sam Hollis
So it’s it then becomes the challenge of balancing the doing while keeping that listening and that and that relaxed atmosphere rather than it suddenly becoming a bit tense because we’re busy doing the job, if you know what mean.
15:33.92
Colin Smith
Yes. And I think the what’s so lovely about technology today is you could take 300, 400, 500 pictures and you you’ll youll get the you’ll get a dozen, 20 whatever from it.
15:42.26
Marcus Ahmad
Yes.
15:49.20
Colin Smith
Whereas in the past, hang on, i’ve gotten you know there’s only a certain number of pictures I can take.
15:51.26
Marcus Ahmad
yeah Yeah, yeah, exactly.
15:53.84
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
15:54.35
Marcus Ahmad
ten You know, 12 shots and a roll of film if before you’ve got to put another film in your back and then start again.
15:59.86
Colin Smith
Yes. and And I think one of the skills that photographers have is the ability to to do two things at one time, which is take photographs and chat.
16:07.96
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah.
16:08.15
Colin Smith
and they’re looking, okay, what about this? What about that? Hey, look at this. Hey, what about, what about, you all the, that’s really what the the camera people, the photographers are ah great at, the good ones.
16:18.55
Colin Smith
And they almost like, they know intuitively when to say certain things that bring the smile, that bring that magical moment that we’re all looking for.
16:28.08
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
16:29.56
Colin Smith
um You know, and and and I think, again, going back to what you were saying, Marcus, Some of the compliments can be paid at different times through that as well.
16:41.18
Colin Smith
And so I think there’s there’s a lot going on, but the if you’ve got underlying it, the intention that I’m here for them, i’m not bringing my other stuff in, then there’s a much better chance, much greater chance that you’re gonna be able to build that rapport and maintain it through through all
17:01.72
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah, yeah.
17:01.98
Colin Smith
because Because if you start to drop off or get distracted, then they’re going to notice.
17:01.92
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
17:11.29
Marcus Ahmad
Exactly right.
17:11.42
Colin Smith
Yeah?
17:12.09
Marcus Ahmad
Exactly right.
17:12.38
Colin Smith
Yeah.
17:13.11
Marcus Ahmad
And just to dig into what you’re just saying ah you were just saying, I think, first of all, yeah, you’ve got to be really 100% with your equipment so you’re not worried about your equipment or get an assistant so they can deal with that so you can give the full concentration of sitter.
17:25.50
Colin Smith
yeahp
17:27.25
Marcus Ahmad
And you were just saying about how do we get the sitter or the subject ah authentic and alive in front of us. Now, I’ll give you one little tip that I use, and maybe you can give us give us some more just to show what I’m talking about.
17:43.37
Marcus Ahmad
The the one that I took get and I got from Arnold Newman, who’s a very famous portrait photographer, and he gets people, because the eyes are so important. People can smile very easily, but to get the eyes working with the smile is quite difficult.
17:53.89
Colin Smith
Yeah.
17:56.97
Marcus Ahmad
And what he gets and what I’ve tried doing is get people to think about a nice moment in their life, okay? So but what what what kind of other tools can we might bring into it that you can think of?
18:04.44
Colin Smith
Beautiful.
00:00.03
Marcus Ahmad
wonderful show this a as well. and and it cut off
00:02.04
Sam Hollis
There we go, Marcus. Go.
00:04.15
Marcus Ahmad
So one of the tools that I use, Colin, is I get these ah ah to think positive thoughts so their eyes light up. Now, so that’s just one of the ideas that I use. Can you think of any others that you can maybe throw out to our listeners?
00:20.89
Colin Smith
Yeah, I think the to go slightly back into us into a different scenario is is how do we get the photographers to practice listening better?
00:29.11
Marcus Ahmad
Aha, yes.
00:30.01
Colin Smith
with And so you could have two photographers quite happily having a conversation with each other. And the idea is, you you touched on it, Sam, about going deeper, is they sit down for, let’s say, 20 minutes, um and one of them just talks about whatever they want to think about for 10 minutes.
00:50.90
Colin Smith
And the other person listens and they listen in a way not necessary to understand because that’s not important, but the, so that the other person feels heard.
01:02.68
Colin Smith
And the idea is the setup is I will not interrupt you. I will give you my full attention.
01:08.49
Marcus Ahmad
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:09.24
Colin Smith
And only if you ask me, will I say, and what more? And, people go, oh, 10 minutes, start with five minutes if you wish, but they seem 10 minutes is a long time. When you start talking, people will talk forever, right? Which is lovely. But what happens is because there’s nowhere to go they start thinking deeper and deeper and deeper.
01:33.78
Colin Smith
And the what I’m saying is practicing that with another, your partner or whatever, will help you when you’re in the scenario or scenarios that we’re we’re talking about.
01:45.75
Colin Smith
And so, once Once we’ve got that, the what i notice is that when we’re in that lovely space, the words that we need to say flow because they start to come from a different place because you’re connecting, ah say metaphorically, heart to heart as opposed from head to head.
01:48.84
Sam Hollis
you
02:05.24
Colin Smith
And when we connect from heart to heart, we’re able to express ourselves in a very different way. And I think that’s that’s part of the the message that they’re starting to connect with the photographer in a different way.
02:11.58
Marcus Ahmad
Right.
02:20.31
Colin Smith
This isn’t, I have a sort of step-by-step, which is the first is that we are we are talked at, or we are, and then the next phase is we hear from, we listen to, we’re being with, and we are just being or be.
02:32.14
Marcus Ahmad
Mm. Aha. Mm.
02:44.70
Colin Smith
And what we what we’re seeking to do to start from the point, some of the photographers will arrive and start talking at, we touched on that. They start to hear from, you’re still talking, but actually I’m now starting to listen to and be with.
03:00.34
Colin Smith
When we’re in that sort of space, then we start to get that inner essence. Their eyes do start to light up because you’re interested in me And so that lovely phrase of, and what more?
03:16.31
Colin Smith
How many times you’ve been in a conversation and you’re talking, talking, talking. The moment you draw breath, the other person jumps in and it’s like, well, I haven’t finished yet.
03:23.49
Sam Hollis
yeah
03:26.50
Colin Smith
Oh, sorry, sorry. What are were you gonna say? And you go, I don’t know. but if you drew breath and they didn’t interrupt, they carried on talking and then they drew breath.
03:37.69
Colin Smith
And then it was paused for a little bit longer. And then you said, and what more?
03:42.71
Marcus Ahmad
yeah that very Yeah, that’s very rare, Colin.
03:42.90
Colin Smith
You’re interested in me? Right.
03:46.52
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah, that’s rare.
03:46.81
Colin Smith
and so But I promise you that I was going to say 99.9% people will smile when you say that, and then they’ll talk some more.
03:59.70
Colin Smith
And so in the photographer scenario, this question, tell me a bit more about that. Because as they’re talking, you’re taking pictures. And that that little smile when they when you’ve said, and what more, or tell me more, might be a golden one for you to pick.
04:17.66
Colin Smith
Might be because you’re clicking you know digitally, you’re connecting all the time.
04:19.42
Marcus Ahmad
Yes.
04:21.75
Colin Smith
It might be those moments. That was the one. That was the one to take.
04:26.04
Marcus Ahmad
Yes. Yeah.
04:27.06
Sam Hollis
So in some ways, practice the the listening you you won’t get by just going in and hoping for the best.
04:27.13
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah.
04:27.13
Colin Smith
So.
04:33.33
Sam Hollis
or Find people to practice on. It sounds a bit odd, but you know, like you said, fellow photographers, members of your family, and and and get it so it becomes something that you do naturally and something you’re happy doing.
04:37.28
Colin Smith
Yeah.
04:37.33
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah.
04:39.93
Colin Smith
Yes.
04:44.77
Sam Hollis
And it will take a bit of practice, won’t it?
04:46.17
Marcus Ahmad
Yes.
04:46.87
Colin Smith
Yes.
04:47.13
Marcus Ahmad
yeah indeed cut Guys, I was going to just sort butt in here and just sort of say a little anecdote. You know, that I play in a band and I’ve been doing music for a long, long time.
04:57.18
Marcus Ahmad
And listening is one of the skills that is most appreciated ah for from musicians. It’s especially when you’re doing like an improvised type of music. It’s all about listening.
05:07.93
Colin Smith
Right.
05:08.71
Marcus Ahmad
And you get players who come along and you can tell they don’t listen. And those are the ones that you you really do not like playing with. just something you know it’s just a music thing It’s such an important thing in music, and yet people don’t talk about it in photography so much.
05:21.59
Colin Smith
Yeah, but it’s the same same thing. You’re building connection. You’re building rapport with each other. And as ah as I touched on earlier, um I’m blessed to have been able to sit in the the sound booth on an outdoor concert, which is usually some way back in the middle.
05:36.73
Marcus Ahmad
Oh, yes. Yes.
05:40.09
Colin Smith
And on one side was the sound engineer. So he had earphones, so he’s connecting to the conversations that’s going on with the band.
05:48.86
Marcus Ahmad
Right. Yes.
05:49.83
Colin Smith
He’s also leaning out so he can hear the noise of the crowd and also the noise, or the the real noise that’s coming from the the band itself.
05:55.39
Marcus Ahmad
Gotcha. Yes.
06:01.24
Colin Smith
And it just watching him, it was a study in listening.
06:05.75
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah, very well.
06:05.98
Colin Smith
And at the same time as he’s doing that, he is playing his um his his keyboard, the mixing deck.
06:06.91
Marcus Ahmad
Yes. Yes.
06:12.26
Marcus Ahmad
Mixing deck, the mixing desk.
06:12.89
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yeah.
06:13.84
Colin Smith
Yeah, it is extraordinary. And the concentration. right I knew i was in the presence of a great listener. So i’m I’m with you on 100%.
06:22.71
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah.
06:24.36
Colin Smith
And I think that’s the same.
06:24.50
Marcus Ahmad
Thank you.
06:26.46
Colin Smith
One of the things that people will say to a good photographer, good a good artist, you know it could be a photographer, it could be a physio, whatever, is they listened.
06:37.94
Colin Smith
He really, she really listened to me. right and And then they responded in response to what I said. It didn’t feel as though I was being done to.
06:51.26
Colin Smith
it felt like I was being with them.
06:54.10
Marcus Ahmad
but yeah Brilliant. Brilliant.
06:55.22
Sam Hollis
Yeah, that’s amazing. And have a feeling we can um we can have a whole and other show and apply this to kind of that sales and marketing space too, couldn’t we, at another time? That’s kind of a very, very similar thing, isn’t it?
07:04.73
Colin Smith
Yes.
07:07.72
Sam Hollis
You’re going to have much more success and build that, you know, be able to yeah do better if people feel listened to and not just that you’re selling them something.
07:17.85
Colin Smith
I mean, I went to the Levi’s store and I said, I want a pair of jeans like these. Now, because they did the usual, you know, how can I help? And I said, I want a pair of jeans like this.
07:27.17
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
07:29.20
Colin Smith
And he looked at me went, you bought them in the US, right? Because you knew the number and you knew the style.
07:37.66
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
07:38.10
Colin Smith
And I went, oh, my God, this guy knows his stuff.
07:41.27
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
07:41.91
Colin Smith
Right? And then we chit-chatted about it. What’s the nearest, what cup, up all of those things. ended up buying two pairs of jeans, walking out very happy with a, and again, I remember that story.
07:54.90
Sam Hollis
yeah yeah
07:55.29
Colin Smith
Yeah?
07:55.35
Marcus Ahmad
ke
07:55.93
Colin Smith
And it, I’ll go.
07:55.99
Marcus Ahmad
did di dip do you think g Do you think the jeans were in his jeans? Sorry. I’m sorry about that.
08:01.77
Sam Hollis
I have Marcus.
08:02.13
Marcus Ahmad
Sorry.
08:02.28
Colin Smith
It’s okay, we can edit that out, I think.
08:02.60
Sam Hollis
who let Who let you out, Marcus? Jeez.
08:04.90
Marcus Ahmad
We’ll finish and maybe we should finish on that.
08:07.22
Colin Smith
Well, I did one about the in frame, in the frame, didn’t I, so.
08:07.22
Sam Hollis
but
08:07.93
Marcus Ahmad
you know
08:11.57
Marcus Ahmad
don’t know about you, Sam, but I feel my heart rate has lowered by about 10 beats per minute just listening to Colin talking about photography there.
08:11.77
Sam Hollis
Right.
08:19.42
Sam Hollis
Always does. It does.
08:21.11
Colin Smith
Right, so take that take that point. Why do you think that is?
08:27.83
Marcus Ahmad
Well, because you’ve got a very relaxing voice. Yeah.
08:30.49
Sam Hollis
yeah
08:31.16
Colin Smith
Right, thank you. But what else is going on?
08:35.70
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah, it’s the listening. It’s a conversation. We’re having a conversation.
08:39.06
Colin Smith
Right. So when we apply that to the photographer, talk to them like a human being. It’s a conversation. Imagine imagine that the person you’ve come to see is your long lost brother.
08:52.82
Colin Smith
Arrive with that energy.
08:53.41
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah. Yeah.
08:55.41
Colin Smith
Then people feel valued. They matter.
08:57.62
Marcus Ahmad
Nice.
08:58.84
Colin Smith
that’s That’s my final thoughts.
08:58.84
Sam Hollis
That’s a lovely analogy.
09:00.25
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah, lovely.
09:00.28
Sam Hollis
Amazing. Thank you so much. Loads and loads for the photographers to go away and use and apply. And yes, we’d love to hear photographers. back If you’re practicing this with with loved ones or or using it on yeah using it with customers and how it works, that’d be lovely to hear.
09:15.50
Colin Smith
Yeah, I would add one thing, you know, um get in touch with me. i run um every month, a couple of times every month, a session on on listening.
09:26.65
Colin Smith
um it’s It’s free of charge, but because the idea is how do I spread the word of listening?
09:28.70
Marcus Ahmad
Oh, fantastic.
09:33.21
Colin Smith
And we have we give you experience of thinking in pairs and also thinking out loud in a listening circle.
09:33.21
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
09:40.66
Colin Smith
So there’s a chance to practice.
09:40.76
Sam Hollis
How do we find you then? Yeah, perfect. how do we How do people find you then, Colin?
09:46.17
Colin Smith
So um I’m on LinkedIn. If you look up Colin D. Smith and or and or the listener, you’ll find me. Send me a private message and I’ll be delighted to invite you to these listening matters.
09:58.81
Sam Hollis
Amazing. That’s perfect.
09:59.86
Colin Smith
Thank you.
10:00.01
Sam Hollis
Thank you so much. Thank you for being with us and sharing so much amazing, so much amazing information.
10:01.31
Marcus Ahmad
Thank you.
10:05.89
Sam Hollis
And Marcus, I will see you next week.
10:09.14
Marcus Ahmad
See you next week, Sam.
