Don’t Let Your Life’s Work Fade Away: Most photographers are the engine of their business, but that often makes it impossible to sell. Mark Jarvis joins Sam to discuss how to build a “going concern” that retains its value long after you’ve stepped away.
The Buyer’s Litmus Test: The one critical factor that determines if your business is a sellable investment or a personal liability.
The Lead-Gen Mirage: Why your current method of finding clients might be the very thing stopping you from ever walking away.
The Valuation Formula: We reveal the specific math behind Business sales and why your “Brand Swoosh” is worth more than your equipment
00:02.23
Sam Hollis
Hello and welcome to Commercial Photographer. This week it is just me. Well, there’s no Marcus, but I do have an amazing guest with me. So this week I have with me Mark Jarvis, who has started many, many businesses, is well known um in Lincolnshire um and is a business advisor, someone I know well and really looking forward to chatting on the show. So um welcome to the show, Mark.
00:27.90
Mark Jarvis
Thank you very much, Sam. It’s lovely to be here.
00:31.27
Sam Hollis
Thank you. So what me and Mark have been chatting about and planning is we’re thinking would be really nice to talk about is how you can get value from your business as you plan to leave it. Be that you’re going to do something else, you decide to go into an employment, crazy idea, or you’re moving to retirement, whatever it is. What can you do to get some value from that business rather than just kind of letting it peter out and fade away?
01:00.40
Mark Jarvis
It’s a great question, I think. i I’m not sure we’ve got enough time today to to get into that all of that, but to I’ll certainly do my best to share my own experiences and perspectives um on um you know that that journey that we might do as a sole trader as ah or as a small micro business.
01:18.55
Mark Jarvis
How you might, as you say, get value out of it at the end of the day. um So yes, it’s so it’s a very interesting topic.
01:24.18
Sam Hollis
Excellent. It is. and we’ve got ah We’ve got another show that links to that. So from the other side, we’ve got a show you can listen to if you look through all the past shows. We’ve got one about buying a business. So we’ve got one. We talk about the other side, about how you could grow your business by buying a business from other photographers. But this is the reverse. What can you do to get value from your business? I mean, ah in some ways, it’s always good to start with a why, isn’t it, Mark? But in some ways, that’s that’s relatively obvious, isn’t it? It’s trying to get some value from that years of work you’ve put in.
01:55.70
Mark Jarvis
It is absolutely, Sam. You know, one of the things that so I do, as well as weeding off some of the things that ah that i that I do already, Sam, thank you, um is that I do buy and invest in businesses.
02:07.16
Mark Jarvis
um And one of the key things that I always say to people is that I’m not going to buy or invest in a business if it makes me work harder.
02:15.64
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
02:15.93
Mark Jarvis
And it is linked to where we’re going, um but I’m not going to do that. So, you know, if we think about how we might set up your business, um in order that it’s sellable or buyable, depending on how you want to look at it.
02:29.66
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
02:30.55
Mark Jarvis
ah I think that’s um that’s perhaps one of the first points that we should look at because the whoever it is that wants to buy your business or invest in it is not going to do so to work harder.
02:43.59
Mark Jarvis
They’re not going to do that. They want to buy a business that functions. um You know, the traditional way of putting it is is called, I want to buy a going concern. That’s often the way that that it’s put.
02:56.10
Mark Jarvis
I don’t want to buy a struggling business. I don’t want to buy a failing business. I want to buy a successful business that has a pathway to growth.
03:05.93
Sam Hollis
Okay, excellent. And that presumably is quite challenging though, if like with many photographers, the photographer is the only person in the business, because it’s not like you can hand it over and there are staff and it’s running. This is a business that’s often with just one person.
03:21.18
Mark Jarvis
Yes, absolutely. So, you know, if we look at the core elements of um a going concern or a functioning business, and you know, yeah at a very straightforward level, let’s just say we need a way that the business can prove that it has a sustainable lead generation activity.
03:41.35
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
03:41.75
Mark Jarvis
So we need a way to be able to prove that. you know, however many people there, that leads there might be in your pipeline, whatever that might look like, the business needs to be able to prove that it has, as I said, a sustainable lead generation activity going on, you know, whether it’s through websites or social media or networking or whatever it might be.
03:45.85
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
04:04.58
Mark Jarvis
Ideally, a mixture of all of those things, plus some, you know, perhaps some standard advertising or printed advertising, the whole range of a marketing mix that um other people are much more um in a position to be able to talk about.
04:17.91
Mark Jarvis
ah but But as I said, the the core element is the business needs to be able to prove that it it has a way of generating new clients. So that’s perhaps the first step.
04:28.47
Sam Hollis
Okay. Yeah.
04:29.91
Mark Jarvis
um And when we think about the um the elements that we’re going to buy, that is one of the things that as a buyer or as somebody going to sell the business needs to have in place.
04:30.04
Sam Hollis
Okay. Excellent.
04:42.04
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yeah. A business that’s slowly dying off because there’s no one new coming in does not have the same value, does it?
04:49.27
Mark Jarvis
ah No, and the the challenge in that, Sam, as I’m sure we all know as as as a sole trader or micro businesses, And I call these the entrepreneur seesaws. And the first one is we have to go out and get business.
05:02.10
Mark Jarvis
And then we spend a lot of our time and energy getting business. So we then have to go and do the business. So we have to go and deliver the contracts or deliver the work that we’ve done.
05:07.55
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
05:11.00
Mark Jarvis
And then once we’ve delivered the work we’ve done, we realize, oh my goodness, my pipeline is a little bit thin.
05:15.86
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
05:16.25
Mark Jarvis
So i I need to go out and get some more business. So it becomes a bit of a seesaw um between i need to get out and get get business and then I need to deliver the business. And now I’m so busy, I can’t they can’t generate business and round and round and round.
05:32.47
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
05:32.63
Mark Jarvis
So finding a way to and to smooth that seesaw some way, you’re never going to get away get away from it completely because it’s the nature of sole trader.
05:44.50
Mark Jarvis
um
05:44.91
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
05:45.34
Mark Jarvis
But how can we generate some automated system for generating leads through marketing activity as as described already?
05:52.41
Sam Hollis
Right. Yeah, okay. And then that’s in place, that’s getting leads, and then you can show that’s the case to a potential buyer. So you can say, look, this is happening on social media, this is happening. These are networking groups I’m going to. These are the monthly leads that are coming in from this work month in, month out.
06:12.02
Mark Jarvis
Correct. That’s exactly it. And, you know, as as I said, so as somebody who does, you know, buy and invest in businesses, for me, that is probably the one of the pieces that has the most value.
06:26.74
Sam Hollis
Okay, that compared to what about that compared to the, the um clients they’ve got.
06:27.61
Mark Jarvis
um One of the…
06:32.89
Sam Hollis
So what about you know, because obviously, there’s also the client book, you know, if they’ve got a really good clients, that’s repeat business, do you still see that sustainable lead generation as more important? Or is it kind of a balance?
06:46.77
Mark Jarvis
there’s ah There’s a really big challenge here for us. um I will share it with you, but and I hope um me sharing it in the way that I’m going to show doesn’t make it sound too harsh or difficult.
06:59.97
Mark Jarvis
hope I’m just trying to share some reality with you.
07:02.18
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
07:03.13
Mark Jarvis
um and I think i often have people come to me and say, look, you know, I’ve got 200 clients in my client book, I’ve got all these customers, those customers must be worth something.
07:16.06
Mark Jarvis
um And yes, there is an element of value in the loyalty that those customers have with you. The challenge in our modern world is, what is to stop a competitor coming in to your industry undercutting you by 10 percent and stealing all your customers and again i forgive me if it sounded a little bit harsh ah but it is the reality of our commercial world um so how can our whole customer base have a significant value when a competitor or somebody else could enter the industry tomorrow
07:38.76
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
07:41.52
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yeah.
07:56.36
Mark Jarvis
undercut you by 10% and steal your customer not the loyal ones as I say there’s a value in the loyalty element but that’s not a high percentage of the whole book if you like
08:07.13
Sam Hollis
yeah Okay, so there’s the’s some there’s some value there, but you’ll say, yeah, that you and presumably judging that loyalty is almost impossible. It’s really hard to do.
08:19.03
Sam Hollis
You know, what percentage of the customers those really loyal ones and what what would leave tomorrow if there was something cheaper turned up?
08:19.96
Mark Jarvis
it is absolutely
08:26.30
Mark Jarvis
Yes, yes. ah And I know that, you know, in a service based industry, you know, we build strong relationships with with our customers and our clients. And we have a high degree of loyalty with most of them, I’d like to think.
08:39.32
Mark Jarvis
However, there are plenty of people out there which are very price sensitive. And that’s the reality of the modern world. So, yes, I agree that the customer book has a value, but it’s not the most significant part of the value in a business when it comes to buying it, selling it, you know, exchanging the value at the end of the when when the time is right for you to move on.
09:01.88
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Okay. So that presumably then that means if you’re looking to sell, focusing on that sustainable lead generation, you know, for the, for quite a period of time beforehand is absolutely vital.
09:17.66
Mark Jarvis
it is um the the key thing i think to that is if you are going to be selling the business don’t wait until you’ve decided to sell it to start setting the business up for sale that ah that that sort of sentence made sense i hope it did um but in
09:33.98
Sam Hollis
so
09:36.60
Sam Hollis
Yeah, so I mean, i guess the question, logical question is when do you start from that?
09:38.87
Mark Jarvis
and
09:41.72
Sam Hollis
And you may well say day one, but on day one, we’re obviously thinking about an awful lot of things and it’s not crossing our minds selling it. So when do we start to think about this stuff really, realistically in terms of time from when we want sell?
09:55.35
Mark Jarvis
If we think that, yes, thank you. If we think that the key element there is is being able to prove that our business, not ourselves, but that our business is a viable going concern with a proven way of generating new business, the sooner we can start to establish that to be able to prove that we have ah we we have a way to generate new business.
10:21.82
Mark Jarvis
the sooner that we we establish that in writing, in our systems, in our processes, in our business. um And again, i know it’s a little bit counterintuitive, particularly for sole traders and micro businesses, because it lives in our head.
10:34.39
Mark Jarvis
which is which is the reality of of what it is. ah But let’s think about um how a potential buyer is going to look at that because they’re not going to buy your head, I’m afraid. They they have to buy something that’s on paper.
10:49.72
Mark Jarvis
so So, you know to answer the question directly, we really need to be four to five years away, really.
10:57.70
Sam Hollis
we are talking in a good way.
10:59.00
Mark Jarvis
If we’re going to build a network
10:59.55
Sam Hollis
so Yeah.
11:02.55
Mark Jarvis
So just saying, if we’re going to build a strong network and, um you know, and a proven marketing strategy, and that takes time to build.
11:02.65
Sam Hollis
So is it just… i god
11:11.75
Sam Hollis
Yeah. And so what we’re really saying, getting this all in place and getting documenting some things going on your business is just, is probably good practice. And if at the end it means you can sell it, great. And if not, it has probably helped you on the way and helped you have clearer thought process in a more organized business anyway.
11:30.17
Mark Jarvis
It is. There’s an interesting point, again, I think worth making for us in that um when we are a sole trader or a micro business, we are the business.
11:41.01
Mark Jarvis
That’s the reality of it.
11:41.54
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yeah.
11:42.97
Mark Jarvis
um However, we can do ourselves a lot of favours by understanding that the business can be established or or thought of as its own separate entity.
11:55.61
Mark Jarvis
So what’s best for the business might not be best for the people in it, whether that’s one person or two or three people or hundreds of people.
11:55.96
Sam Hollis
yeah
12:04.53
Mark Jarvis
What’s best for the business? And what’s best for the continuity of the business rather than us as the founder of the business or or whatever it is, just walking away at the end of the day, just saying, you know what, I’m going to retire next year.
12:18.20
Mark Jarvis
so I’m going to gradually let my customers go. and by the time I come to retire, I’ve only got to tell one customer that that I’m retiring because everybody else has gone away.
12:26.97
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
12:28.22
Mark Jarvis
Now, that’s not it that’s not a lot to show for your life’s work.
12:29.05
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
12:32.57
Mark Jarvis
um I know you’ve got a portfolio in our and the industry we’re talking about today.
12:32.95
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
12:36.87
Mark Jarvis
There’s a portfolio of work and all sorts of things like that, which I’m sure is amazing. But the business, um I think, has a significant value when we can be it when we can prove the factors that we’ve talked about already today.
12:50.20
Sam Hollis
Yes, that’s a mindset shift, isn’t it? Thinking, separating you and the business. And a lot of people, especially in photography, often it starts as a hobby and it kind of grows from that.
13:00.89
Sam Hollis
A lot of people find that hard, don’t they, to separate that business from themselves rather than just saying, i am the business.
13:08.60
Mark Jarvis
You’re absolutely right. Bang on, Sam. and the The irony in business is that some of the things that we have to do in shifting our mindsets you know from business ownership yeah to to running a business, to owning a company, as I often talk about when I’m talking about larger organisations, it’s very easy to run a business, but to run a company is a very different thing.
13:28.02
Mark Jarvis
ah To be able to shift that mindset and move into a leadership position and all sorts of other things which we won’t get into today,
13:33.80
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
13:34.74
Mark Jarvis
The irony is that those are the things that somebody in the early stages of business ownership has to do first, and they’re the hardest things to do. That’s the irony of it. and So, um yes, being able to, as I say, to set the business up so that it’s viable,
13:54.01
Mark Jarvis
um So that whoever it is is going to buy isn’t going to have to work harder. They want to buy something with a proven track record, a viable business, if you like. And the the sooner we can start to establish the proof mechanisms within the organisation, within the business, ah the the sooner it will be viable.
14:15.03
Sam Hollis
Okay. So then we’ve kind of talked about sustainable lead generation, and that’s really key. We said customers are a part of it. Is there anything else that’s kind of a key part of it? Is that really the two cornerstones of the business?
14:28.15
Mark Jarvis
I think if if you look at what a business really is, a business is about having, um one of my favourite quotes is, ah a business is about having ah having a compelling purpose and to be achievable in your he achieving that purpose.
14:45.85
Mark Jarvis
So ah most of the things that ah that exist within a sole traders or a microbusinesses, leaders or founders head is what are you about?
14:45.85
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yeah.
14:55.30
Mark Jarvis
What is the purpose of the business? Where do you sit in the market? How do you differentiate yourself with competitors? All of those sorts of things, which I tend to find reveal themselves as we begin to take the journey of of demonstrating our proof, if you like. So the proof part of our marketing plan, how we generate new business, how we support clients, all of those things.
15:19.45
Mark Jarvis
Part of that proof process is our ability to verbalize and write down our key purpose. What’s the key purpose in that in in in for my business in this industry and what stands me apart from other people in this industry?
15:35.98
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Okay. Excellent. So then we’ve kind of, we’ve got a kind of business there. We’ve kind of got it organized. If we’re kind of then at the stage where you think, well, maybe it is time to sell it um yeah for whatever reason.
15:49.54
Sam Hollis
um i mean, there’s a few things to think about that. And the first obviously is valuation. how where That’s really hard. How do you even start with that? How do you value a business?
16:00.16
Sam Hollis
Bearing in mind, we don’t have 10 hours. Yeah.
16:02.68
Mark Jarvis
no no um there is a there’s a factoring um uh equation i trump couldn’t think couldn’t think of the word there so i’m sorry about that there’s a factoring equation actually you and you can google it or go on go on ai go on chat gpt or something like that there’s a factoring equation which says basically um
16:12.86
Sam Hollis
Okay. Okay.
16:18.10
Sam Hollis
Okay.
16:24.22
Mark Jarvis
two two times your revenue divided by x percentage or whatever it is there’s a there’s a there’s a little mathematical formula the reason i’m not being specific is it it varies by industry Okay, so that that that formula varies by industry, which is why I can’t give you the definitive one for photographers.
16:34.94
Sam Hollis
okay
16:40.97
Mark Jarvis
perhaps ah
16:40.95
Sam Hollis
okay
16:41.85
Mark Jarvis
and so So go on ChatGPT, get yourself on Google or something like that.
16:42.26
Sam Hollis
yeah
16:46.53
Mark Jarvis
you know what is Just Google it. what’s what’s the um you know What’s the factoring formula in the photography industry for selling a business?
16:53.04
Sam Hollis
Okay.
16:54.87
Mark Jarvis
Just Google that.
16:56.55
Sam Hollis
But it’s based on it’s based on turnover and then there’s some sort of factoring.
16:56.70
Mark Jarvis
Anyway, so there is a formula.
17:00.87
Sam Hollis
Is that basically to do with the general longevity of clients in that industry? So it’s it’s kind of a smaller, if if they turn over quickly, you multiply it by a much smaller number.
17:05.97
Mark Jarvis
Basically, that’s it. Yeah, so there’s a
17:10.18
Sam Hollis
If they’re quite loyal, it’s a bigger number.
17:13.22
Mark Jarvis
Yeah, correct. That’s it. And longevity of the business, how long has the business been trading, et cetera, et cetera.
17:14.72
Sam Hollis
Okay.
17:18.61
Mark Jarvis
So as I say, to answer the question, there is a formula for it.
17:18.62
Sam Hollis
OK.
17:22.68
Mark Jarvis
ah Just go and Google it for for the photography industry.
17:22.94
Sam Hollis
Yeah. OK. That’s nice and simple.
17:26.10
Mark Jarvis
um
17:26.54
Sam Hollis
OK.
17:26.90
Mark Jarvis
pretty Yeah, pretty straightforward to do. um
17:31.54
Mark Jarvis
And, like you know, thinking about, again, just thinking about what it is that… So if you were to put yourself, our listeners were to put themselves in the position of buying a fellow photographer’s business, what would they be looking for?
17:45.32
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
17:46.77
Mark Jarvis
What would you actually be looking for? You know, so you’d you’d look for a comprehensive CRM system, probably.
17:50.49
Sam Hollis
Okay. Yeah.
17:53.81
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yeah.
17:55.18
Mark Jarvis
You’d look for the things we’ve already talked about that before, i’m not gonna repeat that.
17:57.72
Sam Hollis
yeah
17:58.68
Mark Jarvis
and And you’d look for something which has a strong brand, a strong presence in the marketplace, is visually appealing, all of those sorts of things. That’s what you would look for if you were thinking about buying a colleague’s or a competitor’s business.
18:15.22
Mark Jarvis
So if that’s what you would look for, surely that’s what we need to do because that’s what other people would look for.
18:21.69
Sam Hollis
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. so’ll reverse it.
18:23.90
Mark Jarvis
okay
18:23.77
Sam Hollis
Yeah, i think what, I guess that’s a good way to try and put yourself in the the other person’s shoes, isn’t it?
18:25.24
Mark Jarvis
Yeah, just.
18:27.69
Sam Hollis
And think like, what would I be looking for at this stage?
18:30.10
Mark Jarvis
Yeah, yeah. As I say, you know, what questions would you ask of the business owner who’s selling to say, okay well, these are the things I need to know.
18:35.04
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
18:39.62
Mark Jarvis
If I was considering buying your customer base, if you like.
18:43.29
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
18:44.31
Mark Jarvis
What would I ask?
18:46.52
Sam Hollis
Yeah. And then what’s your thoughts on kind of if you’re selling the business, how much information do you give away in terms of because obviously, you know, you normally keep ah some of the financials for your business pretty close, the client list pretty close.
18:54.86
Mark Jarvis
so
18:59.42
Sam Hollis
How much ah do you give away or do you think maybe getting a non-disclosure agreement in place is a good idea? What’s your kind of thoughts on that?
19:10.36
Mark Jarvis
My advice would always be, and I appreciate we’re talking about sole traders and micro businesses at this stage, and I i appreciate that. But what I would always encourage people to do would be to seek proper legal advice and get these things done properly with a formal contract.
19:23.67
Sam Hollis
Okay.
19:27.26
Mark Jarvis
um Even if it’s your friend, your buddy down the road who’s a photographer and he’s going to buy your photography business because you’re retiring or whatever it is.
19:29.93
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
19:35.64
Mark Jarvis
even if you’re going to do the buddy buddy thing i really would strongly encourage people can’t say recommend because this is not advice um but i would certainly encourage people to to to seek legal advice and get a proper contract drawn up so to answer your question there are stages in the disclosure process a little bit like you do when you buy a house you know you do your survey and then you do your searches and then you do this that and the other so there are stages in in the disclosure of um
19:42.25
Sam Hollis
Yeah. yay
19:54.33
Sam Hollis
Okay. Yeah.
19:57.66
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
20:00.18
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
20:04.63
Mark Jarvis
the elements of a business as I say in the same way that you would buy a house ah but again strongly recommend that you would seek some legal support with that
20:06.65
Sam Hollis
Okay.
20:09.94
Sam Hollis
Yeah. well
20:14.74
Sam Hollis
Okay. And then, but if we’re talking about buying a sole trader business, um, how how much do you think kind of legal fees could almost suck out the value from that business quite quickly? I’m presuming there has to be quite careful with the balance.
20:30.79
Mark Jarvis
um it’s a it’s a valid point and a fair point however bearing in mind let’s bear in mind that let’s just say i’m going to buy a photography business just hypothetically i’m not going to but let’s just say hypothetically i’m going to buy a photography business
20:41.63
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yeah.
20:45.94
Mark Jarvis
And I’m in my 40s. um If you can see a picture of me, you know I’m not, but let’s pretend I am.
20:52.07
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
20:53.04
Mark Jarvis
But let’s just say I’m in my 40s and I’m going to run my business and the business I bought for another 10 years before I then decide to do the same thing.
21:04.76
Mark Jarvis
The person I’m buying the business from is perhaps approaching their 60s. I don’t know, hypothetically. And they’re moving on for for the reasons that you would do at that sort of age. Bearing in mind that yes, this support may, I may have invested in that additional support, but I’ve got another 10 years worth of business to to recoup to recoup that. And I’ve got another 10 years of profit to do that.
21:27.09
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
21:27.86
Mark Jarvis
and So yes, I’m going to invest in buying this business and you know I need to invest in all the other things. Some of those might be legal fees and whatever else. I need to continue to invest in the marketing plan for all the business I’ve bought.
21:41.72
Mark Jarvis
etc. But bear in mind, I’ve got another 10 years of profit from this business, which has compounded my existing profit from my own business.
21:45.91
Sam Hollis
Right, yeah, so it’s looking at the long term.
21:49.26
Mark Jarvis
Yes, that’s what it is. Yeah, absolutely.
21:51.74
Sam Hollis
Yeah. OK. And then also what
21:53.05
Mark Jarvis
As long as it doesn’t make me work harder.
21:55.97
Sam Hollis
That’s the key. And then what are we actually buying? So, you know, some people have a limited business and that’s obviously a thing in itself, but obviously if it’s a sole trader, that’s a bit different. So what are we, or are we just buying a client list and the systems and not and not buying the no buying the business organization itself, legal entity itself? what What are we actually buying normally, or does it vary?
22:23.06
Mark Jarvis
The essence, I think, to answer the question as more most in the most straightforward way I can is we’re buying the brand.
22:30.30
Sam Hollis
Okay.
22:30.86
Mark Jarvis
we’re bright We’re buying the brand. We’re buying the brand loyalty, visibility, and credibility that’s been built up over a number of years. That’s effectively what we’re buying.
22:39.10
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
22:41.14
Mark Jarvis
I think it if you think about um think about some of the huge brand businesses out there in the world, you know Nike, Apple, all this, etc., kind think about those businesses.
22:52.06
Sam Hollis
Yeah,
22:54.55
Mark Jarvis
if ah If we were to ask the same question of those businesses, if I was, you know, it’s very hypothetical, but if I was going to buy Nike, what am I actually buying?
23:00.91
Sam Hollis
yeah yeah you’re buying you’re buying a swoosh yeah
23:06.10
Mark Jarvis
You know, I’m buying the logo, I’m buying the brand, I’m buying the but I’m brightly absolutely a swoosh, thank you for saying that, and I didn’t have to. ah But you’re buying the brand um and you’re buying the logo, you’re buying the visibility and credibility that comes along with that brand, the purpose of that company, and the values that it has, et cetera, cetera, and it’s marketing.
23:30.17
Mark Jarvis
Circling back to the original point that we made today. and So I think to answer the question is in the most straightforward way I can. um It is really the brand and the visibility and the credibility that that business has built up over the years, whether it’s a sole trader, whether it’s a
23:44.44
Sam Hollis
Yeah. So if there’s, yeah. So if they’re a sole trader, you’re effectively not buying an organization, you’re effectively getting permission from that person to take over and then it becomes your business. But you okay you’re saying, yes, you here’s all of my systems and here’s my here’s my name, business name that you can use and here’s the website and it’s all yours. But you’re not actually, you know, if it was a bigger business, there’s like, you know, a legal structure, you’re not buying a legal structure, you’re effectively just buying permission to use all that stuff.
24:17.42
Mark Jarvis
That’s it. Exactly, Sam. Yes, that’s exactly it. So, you know, when I buy something, for example, and that’s what I’m buying. I’m buying, again, I’m not going to repeat myself what we’ve talked about today. That’s what I’m buying.
24:29.46
Mark Jarvis
um You know, yes, it is an element of loyalty and repeat custom.
24:29.88
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
24:33.35
Mark Jarvis
I’m buying an element of that, but it’s factored in this equation that I’ve shared to go Google. Yeah. So there’s an element of that absolutely in it, but it is the systems and processes and the CRM um system and all of those things, which means that somebody else can come in and run the business in the same way.
24:46.02
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
24:53.37
Mark Jarvis
And i and i would um I would think about that in terms of run the business, not be the person.
24:53.75
Sam Hollis
Yeah. yeah
25:01.02
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, so in some ways, i was thinking at the beginning, you were going to say, oh, well, it’d be much better being a limited company so you can pass on by yourself. And actually, it doesn’t matter. You’re buying the kind of those, those kind of assets effectively.
25:14.14
Sam Hollis
And the way it’s organized doesn’t actually matter that much. I mean, in some ways, is it simpler legally if they’re a sole trader? Because if you buy a business, they might have debt. They might have contracts they’ve agreed to that you don’t know about. Well, if you’re ah buying…
25:28.73
Sam Hollis
like you said, the resources of the business and you can use their name and brand, you’re not taking any of that on and you don’t need to worry about it. Okay.
25:36.50
Mark Jarvis
ah Yes and no. ah And I’ll explain why. So yes, ah on the surface, you would say you could easily say that a sole trader buying that business again, really recommend that you seek proper advice to do that and support.
25:53.82
Mark Jarvis
and Yes, as a sole trader, it’s it’s pretty straightforward because you’ve just got a you’ve got a contract which is signed by both parties, whether it’s sole traders. um What you will also tend to do is you’ll have to underwrite it personally if you if you’re the seller ah because you have to guarantee the the fees and whatever else.
26:10.42
Sam Hollis
Right.
26:13.75
Mark Jarvis
um But on the flip side of that, you know if you were a limited company, you’ve also got the protection of a limited company. So although directors are liable under limited companies, if you sold the limited company, the limited company is liable, not the people.
26:21.79
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
26:31.81
Mark Jarvis
So there’s there’s the there’s, you know, there’s pros and cons to both sides of it.
26:32.53
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yeah. the protection
26:36.18
Mark Jarvis
And again, that’s not advice. That’s just ah just an opinion. um But there’s pros and cons to both sides. um Yeah, that’s, I hope answers that question.
26:46.97
Sam Hollis
Okay, no, that’s perfect. i am I mean, it’s the end, we’re kind of coming, running out of time. Is there anything kind of in the discussion you think we’ve not touched on, Mark, that we really should have done?
26:58.07
Mark Jarvis
ah Perhaps, perhaps, I don’t think there’s anything particularly missing. um I think it is worth just remembering some of the key points that we’ve highlighted today in the conversation that we’ve had.
27:10.81
Mark Jarvis
um You know, let’s perhaps ask the question, if I was to buy a colleague’s business that was like mine, what would I need to know?
27:10.94
Sam Hollis
Yep.
27:20.12
Mark Jarvis
And again, you know, let’s use our let’s use our our friendly AI ah and ask it to suggest some questions.
27:20.47
Sam Hollis
Okay.
27:24.63
Sam Hollis
yeah
27:26.20
Mark Jarvis
You know, it’s great for that sort of thing, great for research. um So let’s go out there and think about what questions you would ask if it was you. And let’s begin to answer those today in advance so that when the time comes, we’re not chasing around our tail trying to answer them then.
27:44.39
Sam Hollis
Okay, perfect. Amazing. Thank you, Mark. ah Yeah, an awful lot to think about there. And it sounds like, you know, ah the basic advice is a lot of us don’t know if we’re going to be selling in five years, haven’t really thought about that. So in some ways, they’re starting to get things systemized and organized and written down could benefit us either way. So why not just get on with it?
28:06.84
Mark Jarvis
Yes, correct, unless you wanna walk away. If you want to walk away, then that’s fine.
28:09.67
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
28:10.49
Mark Jarvis
um And some people do.
28:11.37
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
28:11.85
Mark Jarvis
um All I’m proposing is your your life’s work is worth more than that.
28:17.30
Sam Hollis
that That sounds a very good note to end on.
28:19.19
Mark Jarvis
ah
28:19.62
Sam Hollis
ah And Mark, um I know you’ve written some books and people might want to contact you.
28:20.50
Mark Jarvis
Yes.
28:24.42
Sam Hollis
So if you can tell people, give us a couple of the books and where to find them and how people could reach out and contact you if they’d like to.
28:32.30
Mark Jarvis
That’s very kind of you, Sam. Thank you very much. Yes, um you can find me on LinkedIn. just Just do a LinkedIn search for Mark Jarvis. You’ll find me there. um You’ll find the banner there with a couple of my books on it. The first book is The Very Best Business Handbook You’ll Ever Own, which is a compendium of my thoughts over the last three or four years or more, I think.
28:50.17
Mark Jarvis
um And the most recent one is called The 63 Point Business Blueprint, which is a business planning tool um all in one book rather than lots of different books. um so that those are both out as well um you can find me on my website mark hyphen jarvis.co.uk and you can contact me there if i can be of any service to anybody
29:00.86
Sam Hollis
Amazing.
29:11.49
Sam Hollis
Perfect. Well, thank you so much for your time today, Mark. It’s been ah an amazing conversation. um Yeah, thanks so much for being with us.
29:20.15
Mark Jarvis
thank you very much sam and thank you for your lovely questions
29:23.35
Sam Hollis
ne See you next week.
