“Show Notes”
Sarah J Naylor is a lifestyle success coach and mentor. She helps people at crossroads in their life. Often a midlife point where you suddenly start asking questions about where you are and what you are doing. She works to help people understand what fires them up, how they want their life to looks and helps them work towards that. It is also about how you see your life and having the gratitude for what you have already. Marcus asks Sarah to define mid-life. Sarah says it’s around 40 to 60, but age is just a number.
Sam says that kids leaving home could prompt that mid life re- assessment of who you are and what you do. Sam refers back to a recent podcast with Allie Crewe and she at that mid life, stopped teaching and became a photographer. Sarah has had quite a journey coming through a divorce and becoming a single parent to setting up her own business during a recession. Sarah says when she was married she now feels her life was on hold. Sam says there are people that are amateur photographers who would like to go pro, but aren’t sure about it and are worried about it.
He asks what Sarah would say to people like that. Sarah has a client in a similar situation with a photography degree, but has lost her confidence in taking photographs. Sarah says the key is just do it. Do what you enjoy. Find the thing that fires you up and do it. Don’t worry about trying to get business from it, just do the type of photography you enjoy ad it fires you up. Sarah says you will then start to get work based on that work. Marcus totally agrees with this approach. Sarah then talks about lifestyle, income and what you want. The key is work out what you want and aim towards that.
It might be you want to travel the world, so in that case you could work on how can earn money while travelling, rather than working hard to be able to afford it. Don’t focus on the money, but equally do value yourself. Sam points out that this is linked to business planning, working out where you want to be and getting there. You can listen to this show here. Sarah says also that small shifts in your life can make the biggest differences in your life. Leading on from this Marcus asks how you get from A to B. Sarah says the first thing is working out in detail what B looks like. Until you have this in place you can’t go anywhere. You then need to be mindful of your words, thoughts and actions. Step into the shoes of the person you want to be. Be positive. Be aware of the opportunities coming your way and take the ones that help you get to B. She says there is a balance here.
Don’t fake it until you make it, but you do have to step into the shoes of the person you want to be. So say “I am a photographer” make it positive. Marcus summarizes Sarah’s approach into three steps
1.Be clear where you want to go
2. Step into those shoes and own it
3. Be the best version of yourself
Sarah loves this summary and says that covers it well. Be yourself and step into your own future. Don’t let others pull you down. Surround yourself with great people who support you.
“Show Transcription”
Sam: Hi Marcus, how are you doing?
Marcus: I am very well, Sam, very well indeed. I’m just out of the studio; they’ve let me out, so I’m recording in a hotel bedroom at the moment. My sound might not be quite as good as normal. Hopefully, you can still make some sort of sense of what I’m talking about.
Sam: I think we will, and we’ll make sure we get Marcus safely locked back up after the show. Welcome to the ‘Shoot to the Top’ podcast, and today we have a brilliant guest who has lots and lots to share with us. So, welcome, Sarah! We have Sarah Jane Naylor, lifestyle success coach and mentor, with us. Hello, Sarah.
Sarah: Good morning, hello, and thank you for inviting me along. It’s great to be here and great to be chatting with you both. Thank you for inviting me along.
Sam: No problem at all. Would you like to introduce yourself, Sarah?
Sarah: Oh yes, so as you’ve kindly said, I am the lifestyle success coach and mentor. So what does that mean? Well, really, it’s about encouraging people, particularly at midlife, when you get to that crossroads where—you know—we all live a great life, don’t we? We get onto this treadmill of education, following this path that we think we need to follow. But we evolve as a person along the way. Then, you get to that midlife point; it might be that the kids have left, or you’ve been made redundant—it could be anything—and it’s just like, ‘Who am I? How did I get here? What do I want out of my life? Am I really living the life that I truly want to live?’ And that’s where I come in. I’ve got a background of 36 years working in the recruitment sector, so I’m well-versed in helping people change career direction, change jobs, listen to them, and understand them. I’ve been a coach for the last 11 years as well—a qualified coach—and it’s really about helping people understand what fires them up. When you’re coaching somebody, you can really see that change in their physiology, and you can pick up on things they haven’t recognized themselves. That’s the excitement; it’s helping people identify what that is, what it could be, how they want their life to look, and then helping them see and facilitate that change. At the end of the day, we’ve all got that within us. We all know, ultimately, if we have that opportunity to dig deep in a non-judgmental fashion, when you’re working with a coach who can help you identify that and then look at the options and how you can start to make that your reality. I like to use the phrase ‘Life’s an illusion of your own creation,’ so it’s about how you see your life. When you start to reflect on what you have and appreciate it with gratitude, you can also identify what you want it to be, without being negative about what you already have. After all, you get what you focus on, so it’s about switching people’s mindsets, thoughts, actions, and behavior—and adding a bit of sass in the process.
Marcus: Very good, so can I just jump in there rather quickly and just. What do you mean by midlife? I think I might be… What do you mean by midlife?
Sarah: Midlife, well, it’s interesting you should say that, Mark, because I had to google it myself just recently. I’ll tell you why: I hit 58 in October, and I thought, ‘Do I still classify as midlife?’ and apparently, I do. I think it’s that age bracket of 40 to 60 in all reality. So hey, I haven’t got long left in midlife, but do you know what? Age is just a number. I think it’s very much more of our soul’s journey and where we are. You know, you can pack loads of stuff into a short lifetime or do absolutely nothing in a long lifetime. I believe it’s about maximizing the time we’ve got, learning what we can learn, and really enjoying the moment. Because, I mean, even when you’ve got a challenge—and trust me, I have had a very, very, very challenging 2023, beyond challenging; it’s even had me banging my head against walls, and I don’t jest—it’s been very challenging. But it’s then looking at the positives that come out of that. You know, when things don’t work, it’s things closing down, and it’s reframing that and going, ‘Okay, actually, well, that’s closing down; what’s that opening up?’ Because when you let go of stuff, a vacuum doesn’t exist, so it’s creating that opportunity for new stuff to come in. And that’s what’s been happening in my world.
Sam: Yeah, and I think what you mentioned is relevant to a lot of people. If you’ve got kids, them starting to think about leaving—that is such a massive change in your life, isn’t it? No matter what age you are. Mine are 15 and 17, and yeah, the 17-year-old’s talking about leaving already, and you’re like, ‘Oh, yeah,’ you know? Suddenly, you’re like, ‘Whoa, what the hell is going to happen then?’ or ‘What is my life suddenly? What am I going to be doing?’
Sarah: Exactly, because if you have spent all that time focusing on your children—and I know some people do—it becomes their whole life. But you know, there are women who—obviously, I was never one of them—but do take that complete career break. Men as well. I’ve got male friends who have taken that career break, and they’ve been the one at home with the children. But you know, you can lose yourself, that very identity. We are all here; the point of having the children is to bring them into the world and provide that platform for them to go out and have their own journey. It’s not about being sort of joined at the hip all the way. Having a great relationship is fantastic, but allowing them that—allowing them, that’s the wrong word—the permission, you know, that unwritten permission to go and have their own life. To support them, encourage them to find their own path. Not to be a helicopter parent. It’s not finding the answers for them; they’ve got to find their own, have their own journey in life, and find the answers themselves, because that’s what shapes you as a person. That’s what enables you to progress, that enables you to gain wisdom. And you know, if you get things wrong, you get things wrong—you learn from that, and then you don’t do it again. But if somebody hones in and goes, ‘Oh no, don’t do that, don’t do that,’ you’re not going to learn anything. You’ve got to move on, but then you’ve got to find yourself in the meantime. Because if you have spent—and children do take up a vast amount of your time—I spent far too much of the time on the phone to my son’s school. It’s like, ‘How much time? Not that teacher again, really? No, what’s he done now?’ But you know, you’ve created a vacuum when your children have left. Or, you know, as I encouraged mine to leave—it was non-negotiable in the end because he’d literally outgrown the space we were in.
Sam: Yeah, it’s interesting as well, because we were interviewing Allie Crew, Marcus, just the other day, and her podcast is just a few back. Yeah, that midlife point when she went, ‘Right, I’m gonna stop teaching and I’m gonna be a photographer,’ and again, that complete change. And that, I think, moving to business—be that photography or other business—is something a lot of people do at that sort of age, isn’t it? Suddenly going, ‘You know, I don’t want to work for anyone else so much. I’ve got that confidence in myself where I can now get myself out there and do something quite different that I want to do and be my own boss.
Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. And I have to say, for me, I got divorced at the end of a 20-year relationship back in 2005. I was employed; I’d always been employed, I’d always supported my ex-husband in his business. And I had to be fair in terms of the relationship.
I was never really supported or encouraged to evolve as a person at that time. Fast forward four years to 2009, and I manifested—I actually wrote a book called Shining a Light on You: How to Manifest Your Dream Job. That was off the back of what I’d actually done back then, which was identify what it was I wanted to do at that time. I created two opportunities that were presented to me, working on a self-employed basis as a recruitment consultant, and I took one. But that was the start of the real journey—well, getting divorced was the start of the journey for me, of that evolution. Then, in 2009, at the height of the UK recession, I went self-employed, and the journey that has taken me on has been exponential, really. I mean, it’s just kept on going and kept on going. You know, I was a single parent with a ten-year-old at home, and I had to get a bank loan to fund myself for six months while I built the business up. But as you said about that confidence, and that’s why I like working with people—I was 39, 39 or 40, when I left my ex-husband, and it wasn’t until I was 43 or 44 when I set my own business up. So, you know, you can do it at any time in life. It might be somebody decides to do it in their 20s—brilliant! And that’s what I’m passionate about as well, is getting the younger generation to follow their flow and really go for it. Because if you’re reliant on your passion, you know, there’s always going to be a career related to it, and you can live your life on purpose and fulfill your potential because you’re doing something you’re naturally passionate about and you want to do and get out there. But, like we come back to the midlife point, a lot of stuff can actually be put on hold. Like, my life was effectively put on hold. I didn’t know any different because I just didn’t know. I didn’t have a social life; I used to enter competitions and things like that. I did all my 60s in my 20s, you know—like learning how to upholster, cane chairs, and all that kind of stuff. And then I had my 20s in my 40s, you know? But who’s to say what route you’re supposed to take? The key to this is finding yourself, identifying what fires you up, and that continues to this day. Even now, there’s still stuff that I’m doing and learning that I get excited about. I just have to rein myself in because I want to do everything all the time, and that’s not possible.
Sam: So, again, with the photography, there are probably a lot of amateur photographers who are thinking, ‘I’d like to do this as a business,’ but they lack the confidence. They’re not sure they should; they’re holding back because they’ve got the safe job. I mean, we can all say, ‘Just go for it,’ but it’s not as simple as that. What advice can you give to someone in that position? What should they think about?
Sarah: Well, it’s really interesting you bring that up because one of my new coaching clients has a photography degree. She’s got children and has been employed. I was only asking yesterday, I said, ‘So, you know about the photography? She’s lost her confidence in doing photography, so it’s something we are going to explore further. At the moment, we’re looking at a career move for her, which is in an employed status, but she hasn’t even been picking up her camera on a personal basis. Yes, she’s used her mobile phone, but no, she’s got a photography degree. She’s got a 2:1 degree, so she’s obviously good at what she does, but she has lost that confidence. I think that comes from what she was talking about—that when you’re going out and doing weddings and parties and things like that, you can lose the passion. But I think the key is to just do it. It’s progress over perfection; it’s just doing what you enjoy doing. I mean, I love taking photographs with my phone, and I would love to do more. I did have an SLR before they became more digital, and so I don’t use it anymore—in fact, my son has it, and he actually likes doing real photography on 35mm film because he doesn’t know what he’s going to get, and there’s a bit of magic to that. So find that thing that fires you up. What is it about photography that you love doing? Don’t worry about trying to get business or anything like that right now; just do what really fires you up. Yes, you can think about weddings, but there’s a lot of stress associated with that. You could be doing group family photographs—does that really fire you up? Do something that you are passionate about. Do something that you absolutely love doing. Even if it’s just photographing the grass that changes from summer to autumn to winter—make that your thing. Have something that you become known for because you’ll get work off the back of it. It doesn’t mean that just because you’re photographing one thing, you won’t get work for something else. In focusing on the grass, you’re looking at growth, at nature, at that consistency in approach, and you’re sharing those images. But really tune into what it is that fires you up and just do it. It doesn’t matter, even if you’re just doing it for your own pleasure, because it’s so wonderful to have photographs. I mean, I’ve got something like 20,000 in my phone. I think I need to do something about that! Excuse me, I have a problem. But equally, I know my parents—my mom’s got photograph albums of photos from when she was in the 50s, and it’s lovely when she does get them out and you see all those photographs. So do it and do what fires you up, whether it is digital, black and white, color, or something else. Whatever it is, just follow that thing that really fires you up because that’s what’s going to engage you, that’s what you’re going to talk about, and that’s what people will know you for as well.
Marcus: I’m nodding enthusiastically along with the words you’re saying, Sarah, and I 100% agree. I think, as regards making money out of photography or whatever business you’re going to go into, making money shouldn’t be the primary concern for doing it. I think you should do it because you love it. Do what you love, and the rewards will come. There’s so much out there about how you’ve got to make this a six-figure business, but put in the reasons why you’re doing it first.
Sarah: Yeah, absolutely, and this is where the lifestyle thing comes in. You know, there has been this massive push—you’ve got to have this, you’ve got to scale up. No, do what’s right for you, what is right for you right now, what is good enough for you right now. Yes, we all want to sort of—yeah, let’s face it, money’s important. Money helps us buy this, do this, do the other. But you know what? There are always lots of different ways of looking at things, lots of different ways of making things happen. You could think, Well, I want to get all this money so I can travel the world.’ Well, make traveling the world part of your photography, and you get paid for going and traveling the world to take photographs, rather than trying to get money out of the photos so that you can travel the world. If you see what I’m saying. There was somebody that I think I had on my podcast—I met her through something else, and she’s a muddy archaeologist. She’s got a passion for archaeology, and she gets paid to go on cruises and talk about her passion for archaeology. And sort of history and things like that, you know? She had this very conversation with her son. He was going, ‘Well, you know, how are you going to make money?’ When she explained to him how much a cruise would cost, and she’s actually only doing half an hour’s work and getting a five- or seven-day cruise out of it, she’s only having to, you know, why wouldn’t you? So, what I’m trying to say is, there are different ways to, say, earn an income—sort of loosely—but there are different ways of doing things. It’s how you want your life to look. What do you want your life to look like? It can happen in different ways, so you can still be doing what you want to do. It’s just sort of resolved or solved through other things you do to create that lifestyle. I scaled up my recruitment business, but do you know what? I never really wanted to manage any staff. I love coaching, the flexibility, the variety of podcasting, writing, networking—I like doing all of that, and that’s what my life consists of. Soon I’ll be moving to the coast, and I’ll be able to go out and walk along the seafront. It’s just about what you want your life to look like, taking it from there, and following your passions. As you said, don’t focus on the money; the money will come secondary. You’ve got to value yourself—absolutely value yourself—but there may be some things you want to do for free that will lead to something else, and other things where you can charge a large amount of money. But if you’re consistently focusing on the money, where’s the satisfaction? Because ultimately, you could be paid millions, but if you really hate what you’re doing, what’s the point? Ultimately, what we all want is happiness. We want joy. We want a life we enjoy living. Yes, money can help, but money’s not the solution. You could have all the money in the world, be miserable, and travel the world—what’s the point? It’s happiness, isn’t it? For me, I’m not materialistic, and I don’t have aspirations to have a gold-plated plane or anything like that. I just want to live my life and enjoy it, and hopefully inspire and motivate people in the meantime.
Sam: Amazing. We were talking about this with business plans, which people see as very dry. When we started, Marcus was thinking, ‘Oh, this is going to be very dull because I just want to earn.’ We said, ‘No, it’s just about where you want to be,’ and that doesn’t have to be financially. That may be part of it, but it’s just about where you want to be in a year, what you want to achieve, and your plan to get there. When it’s your own business, your personal plan and business plan are very similar, if not the same thing.
Sarah: Well, yeah, because they’re intertwined, especially if you’re self-employed. But even if you’re employed, we spend so much time doing something that generates an income to enable us to put a roof over our heads and eat, so it’s not to be dismissed. But it’s about getting it in alignment with what we’re doing. If you’re passionate about what you do, that flows through into your work, into your life. If you’re doing a job just to earn lots of money and you hate it, you’re bringing that negativity back home into your personal life, and it radiates outwards. You come home and maybe hit the pub and just not do anything. I love getting out, trail running, exercising, and enjoying the fresh air—that’s part of what I love. Every so often, I realize that the balance is all wrong, even though I’m in control of my own life. It’s about taking that step back and saying, ‘Hang on a minute, this is a bit out of kilter, isn’t it? Let’s have a look at where I can adjust.’ And yes, making some small shifts, because those small shifts can make the biggest difference. If I could really get myself out of bed at five in the morning, it would be absolutely magical. But let’s start by getting to bed earlier first.
Marcus: Yes, indeed. I mean, this is a great idea—obviously, you live once, so make the most of it. But maybe just to start winding it down, can you give us some steps on how you’re going to achieve that, how you’re going to get from A to B?
Sarah: Right, okay. Well, I think first and foremost, it’s knowing what B actually is—what does B look like to you? Getting specific about it. Who do you want to be around? What do you want your life to look like? Where do you want to live? Who do you want to work with? What does that really look like for you? Spend time on that. It’s all too easy for people to say, ‘I want this,’ but what does it look like? This is what I was just working on with my coaching client, who is a photographer. She’s just started working with me, and we’re really drilling down on what that next move looks like for her, because it’s paramount to get clear on what you want your life to look like. Once you know, you will start to recognize the opportunities that present themselves to you. So, it’s about getting clear, understanding that what you put out there is what you attract back, and being mindful of your words, thoughts, and actions. The next step is to say, ‘Yes, this is what I want to do. I want to be a great photographer.’ So, what options are available to you? Talk about being a photographer. Step into those shoes, be that person, be that photographer, and don’t say, ‘I’d like to be a photographer, but this, that, and the other.’ Be positive. Be specific. Recognize the opportunities that present themselves, take action on those opportunities, but also be very present with your language—how you talk to yourself, to others, and in everything you do. Respond in a way that will make that your reality. There’s that old adage, ‘fake it till you make it.’ I don’t like that specifically, but it’s about using language to say, ‘Yes, I’m a photographer.’ What is a photographer? I could call myself a photographer, really. It’s about getting your head around the language you use and using it differently.
Sam: The balance between, like you said, ‘fake it till you make it,’ and also imposter syndrome—it’s saying that you are this word. You’re not an imposter; you’ve got the skills, but often you feel like you’re not. Don’t you feel that imposter syndrome, thinking, ‘Am I really a photographer?’
Sarah: Well, exactly. I know I’m a speaker, but I could look at it another way and say, ‘I’m not on that platform being paid thousands of pounds at the moment.’ If you start to have that negative thought, you could think, ‘Actually, I am a speaker. When I look at it, I’ve got a podcast that’s been downloaded over 140,000 times in over 129 countries. I’ve got a networking organization where I host bi-monthly meetings. I’m out there, I am speaking, I do get paid to speak, I go on radio and TV and podcasts.’ But I could equally say, ‘Well, I’m not like that person.’ But we’re all different, and the beauty of it is that we are all unique individuals. So, how do you use that language with yourself? Step into it. I hear about imposter syndrome, and I try not to let that get into my mindset. But it’s about recognizing it when you do and asking yourself, ‘How can I counteract that?’ Equally, I think there’s an element of it that can drive you and motivate you because it pushes you to be the best person you can be. Use it differently—use that to power yourself up rather than pull yourself down.
Marcus: That’s fantastic. I’ve been making notes here, and I think I’ve distilled that down to three steps: Be clear on where you want to go, step into those shoes and own it, and be the best possible version of yourself.
Sarah: Oh, I love that! I’m going to take that back.
Sam: You’re taking over as the marketing expert!
Marcus: I should have been a secretary.
Sarah: But yes, that’s the power, that’s the magic—be yourself. Don’t try to be anybody else. Be yourself. We are supposed to be different. We’re not supposed to be having this bit chopped out and that bit tweaked to make us all look like Barbie and Ken. We are all unique individuals. Step into your truth, step into who you are, and believe in yourself regardless of what other people say. If other people try to pull you down, tell them to, well, you know—I’ll keep my language clear. They will pull you down to their level because they’re not prepared to do the work to get to where you’re at, so it’s easy for them to pull you back down. Let them go. That vacuum we talked about earlier is created for other people to come in who will uplift you. Something else to add is to surround yourself with great people who support you—not in a narcissistic way, but by being around good people. I’m very grateful and appreciative of the community of people and contacts I have now compared to 2005 when I left my ex-husband and ended up back at my parents’ house—the house I was born in—in my old bedroom with my son for nine months. I had no social life and had to start from scratch. Now, I have the most incredible network of friends, contacts, and a community of amazing people who are really supportive and encouraging. These are people I can talk to, like today. It’s just wonderful. I’m really thoroughly enjoying and appreciating the time you’ve given me to speak on your podcast because, you know, that’s magical to me. That’s what I love doing.
Sam: Thank you. It’s been amazing to have you with us—loads to take away, all sorts of things. So, yeah, thank you so much for all of that wisdom, all of that thought, and for being with us and sharing it all with us.
Sarah: You’re very welcome. Thank you again for inviting me along; it’s been great.
Sam: If you want to subscribe to the newsletter, just go to the website, ShootstotheTop.com. You can subscribe there, and you’ll get all sorts of extra bonuses. We send you today’s episode, past episodes, and then we send you little bits of extras, so subscribe there. And thank you again, Sarah, for spending so much time with us and sharing so much with us. Marcus, I will see you next week.
Marcus: See you next week. And again, from myself as well, Sarah, thank you very much. It’s been a rich show.
Sarah: Well, thank you very much. No, it’s been wonderful. It’s been a delight to join you both. Thank you. Have a wonderful rest of the day, and thank you to everyone for listening.
