“Show Notes”
Meg is from San Deago, our first guest from the US. Meg is a brand photographer, and has worked with over 300 entrepreneurs. She always wanted to work in an area she had passion in. Twenty seven jobs later she started to work it out. While teaching English in Taiwan she bought a camera and started a travel blog. On her return to the US she decided she really loved photography and so started a business. She started doing all types of photography. Then one day someone asked her to do some branding photographs and this converted her to brand photographer. That business changing brand shoot was seven years ago. At that time photography was still a part time job. So then she started going to networking groups and meeting more business owners. Meg describes brand photography as bring broken down into brand photography and personal brand photography. Brand photography is for a product or business. While the personal brand is for the solo entrepreneur, one man band or family business. The personal branding is what Meg really likes doing. In this age of social media these branding photographs are so important for businesses. Meg now works less, adds more value and charges higher prices which allows her to spend time with her toddlers. She enjoys the flexibility that a brand photographer can bring. She enjoys the creativity of brand photography. If you want to get into brand photography then first of all spend some time getting to know how it works. A client will often have a bigger budget than a personal client. But you need to ensure you let them know what value they will get from your work. Meg also says the planning side of a brand shoot is essential and a key part of the this type of work. This is about finding out about their personality, brand, business and the end use for the photos. Getting in front of as many ideal clients is really important. It’s a numbers game. The more people you can get in front of the more clients and the better clients you will gain. This is a part of the business photographers don’t necessarily enjoy but it is vital for a thriving business. Marcus asks what makes a branding photograph different from a portrait. Meg says it tells a story. You want to try and capture the essence of what a business is through the use of photography. Meg says that although we say the photography market is saturated, this is not unique. Many other industries are the same and
businesses in those industries need photography to make them stand out from the crowd. Marcus and Meg agree that in branding the coffee cup and computer and overused, although they have both used them. They say that you need to get more creative than this. How could a brand photographer go beyond this? Props, location and wardrobe can help and make the photos more unique and interesting.
“Show Transcription”
Marcus: Well hello everybody, this is Marcus from Shoot to the Top and we’ve got another fantastic podcast lined up for you. It’s just me on my own today, I’m flying solo, Sam’s on holiday. Yep, he’s no doubt sitting on a beach somewhere with a cocktail in his hand and soaking up the sun, as opposed to me stuck in dreary old UK with the rain slashing down and a thunderstorm in the distance. Hey ho, there you go. But to make up for that we’ve got a fantastic guest. We’ve got our first transatlantic guest. Yeah, we’ve got Meg McMillan, I think I’m saying that right, all the way from San Diego. She’s not there.
Meg: Yes, I didn’t know I was the first transatlantic guest, what an honor.
Marcus: You are indeed, you are indeed. Meg, tell us a little bit about yourself, what you do, how you got into photography, all those kind of things that we just love to hear.
Meg: Yes, so I am a brand photographer based in San Diego. I’ve served over 300 entrepreneurs to feel confident on camera and build the brand of their dreams, a brand they love. And I got into photography kind of by accident. So my background is I always knew I wanted to do something I was passionate for in life and that I really loved doing, but it took me a while to find out what that was. And so 27 jobs later, I decided to, at one point I was a little frustrated on my journey of finding like that ultimate career path. And I decided to move abroad to teach English in Taiwan because I love traveling. And I figured, well, this is a good time to buy a camera, learn photography, maybe start a travel blog, why not? But I had no intention of going into it full time. But then after learning photography and just being really drawn on my travels to like capturing portraits of people that I would meet on my travels, I came back to the States and I just decided, made a decision, I’m going to go all in and start a photography business and just go for it because I love this. And at the time I was learning from a lot of wedding photographers, I felt that was the only way you could really make it as a photographer, like you do weddings. And so I was doing weddings, I was doing family, newborn, I was even taking on like funeral services, like whatever I could get. I was like, I’m open, like whatever I can shoot, let me just dive into this. And on, and then one day, like this is about like six months in to doing photo shoots, my best friend said, hey, can you do a photo shoot for me for my marketing business? I just, I need some photos for a website, for social media. We can go, you know, downtown San Diego, I have some locations in mind, do a few outfits. I’m like, sure, that sounds fun. So I charged her $200, did a photo shoot, it was like a three hour photo shoot. And I had so much fun. And at the end of it, I was like, wow, that was amazing. And what’s really cool is she started sharing those photos on her Instagram and social media, and she started attracting so many clients to work with her because she had never like shown up in that really confident way for her brand. And then I started getting referrals just from her sharing. And it just, it just took off after that. And of course, there’s a lot more to the story. But that was kind of my like, yeah, that’s how my business started. And now I’m full time brand photographer. That’s all I do is personal branding for entrepreneurs.
Marcus: Perfect. How long ago was that shoot in your career? Well, how long ago was it?
Meg: This summer will actually be seven years. So I’ve been and actually I wasn’t even full time when I did that shoot. I still had a job at a restaurant. I was still like hustling. I had my my day job and then photography on the side. It wasn’t until the end of that year, I went full time. So about a year into trying to, you know, make this a business. I went full time and I never looked back. And so now I’ve been full time for over six years.
Marcus: I mean, what strikes me there is that at seven years ago, you were quite an early adopter in branding photography. I mean, were you aware of that term when you did that shoot? Is that something you knew?
Meg: No, I didn’t even know what branding photography was. I didn’t know that was a thing at all. Of course, we hear like portrait photography. Like I had heard that. I had heard of seniors and it was like I was kind of like, I guess that’s like the closest at the time I would have described it to as. But yeah, I didn’t I didn’t even know what brand photography was. I just it just found me and then I loved it. And then I started to go to networking groups with more entrepreneurs and make connections. And I realized, oh, my gosh, people need this. Like a lot of people really want and need great branding photography.
Marcus: I mean, the idea of branding photography is sort of amalgamation of lots of other types of photography that have been around for a long time. Commercial photography, lifestyle photography, corporate brochures. But the term branding photography, as you’re saying, is very recent, isn’t it?
Meg: Yeah, that’s so true. Like commercial photography has been around forever. And that’s probably the closest I would like related to at this point now that I know more about it and what it is. But the way I like to describe brand photography is like, so for one, if you really want to break it down, there’s brand photography and then there’s personal branding photography. I feel like the term gets intermixed and thrown around and used a lot of places. But sometimes you’re working with like a commercial brand for brand photography and they have typically more of a product or they have a business where they are not the face of their brand necessarily. They might have models and people as the faces of their brand representing their brand and their movement and their mission, but they don’t have like one person usually who’s the face of it. Whereas with what I do, I specialize not so much in products, but more personal brands. So it’s like the solo entrepreneur, the small business owner, the like mom and pop, the like, you know, people like us who have this online brand and business and they’re the face of their brand. It’s a lot of service providers like photographers, coaches, creatives, social media managers, artists are personal brands. And so that’s kind of more what I’ve like niched into and what I really love doing.
Marcus: You know, this is just great to hear you echoing my thoughts here, Meg. It is, it’s the personal brand as the name suggests is this tends to be the solopreneur and then you get branding, which we know Gap, Apple, which is on a massive scale. And what we do as photographers, we bring the two together, don’t we? I would like to think really.
Meg: It’s kind of like bringing like commercial branding photography to these really like micro small business owner solopreneur who really needs this like good marketing, um, these photos and collateral for their branding, for their website. I mean, now in this age of social media, like never ever have we needed so many photos and like visuals, photos and videos to like get our message and our service and market ourselves. I mean, I think it, that’s why it’s really like blown up in the last couple of years, like five, 10 years, I think because like everything’s so digital now.
Marcus: And here in the UK, we were definitely following America where maybe I would probably say a couple of years behind you. Uh, so it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s growing here, but certainly it’s not at the level personal branding as it is in America. But yeah, as you say, it is no doubt it will do. So in the seven years you mentioned 300 people you’ve worked with, is that like 300 businesses?
Meg: Yeah, it’s probably more I need to go back and count. This is I counted like a couple years ago. I just I just estimate because I know it’s at least that in terms of like personal branding clients. But yeah, it’s in when I started, you know, I was hustling, I was definitely charging lower prices. I was doing anywhere from like 12 to 15 shoots a month on a really busy month. And now I’ve really scaled back for a couple of reasons. I had two toddlers, two boys. Well, I had two boys in like over the course of two years. So that was a lot of, and now I’m, I’m momming hard. And so I’ve, I’ve gotten to a place where I offer a little more of like boutique, um, really like high touch white glove service for my clients. And I was able to raise my prices by just adding more and more value into the experience. And then, um, now I work with like, usually three, no more than four people a month.
Marcus: That’s just, but that’s the great thing about it. And of course, what you have done, you have moved more into the education sphere, which we’re going to talk about as the show progresses. But that’s the great thing, isn’t it about the branding photography, you can tailor it. Weddings are pretty prescriptive. They’re on a certain time, you know, there tend to be weekends that is changing. They tend to be in a certain season, and you’re like really working hard. Whereas personal branding is a bit more, you can dictate it more to your own terms.
Meg: Totally. I mean, you’re working with business owners just like us, who like they work usually Monday through Friday and take weekends off. And I mean, they have their, they have full flexibility. Um, it’s like, there’s not a certain date you need to do the photo shoot. So I’ve even had clients where like, I typically do photo shoots on like, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, midweek, where it’s not too busy, there’s not a lot of crowds. And that’s really nice. I mean, it’s nice for my lifestyle, not work weekends anymore. Like when I did weddings. And yeah, there’s just like a lot, there’s definitely a lot more flexibility with like the lifestyle of being a brand photographer versus, you know, wedding photographer.
Marcus: Yes. Having said that, though, I mean, there are disadvantages to that as well. In fact, it’s a fairly new business or new niche. You have to go out there and find the work a bit more. I think with, you know, people, I mean, you know, it’s a classic, oh, what do you do? I’m a photographer. Oh, you photograph weddings. That’s what this sort of thing is, isn’t it? People assume you’re a wedding photographer. Whereas with branding photography, people are sort of still trying to work out what the term means.
Meg: Yeah. It’s funny, when you were just explaining that, I thought about, there’s definitely been times in my career when I tell people like, I’m a photographer and they’re like, oh, that’s nice. Kind of like, that’s a nice little hobby. Like people don’t know you can make a great living as a photographer. And I’m really on a mission and to change that mindset of like the starving artist mindset. And I think because creatives and photographers, we love what we do so much that we would do it for free. I hear that all the time from photographers. It’s so easy to just like give, give, give. And not charge enough money as like a real business owner. Like what we need to be charging to stay in business and really thrive and pay ourselves well and grow the business.
And so that’s one thing that just came up for me when you were describing that. Yeah, like now I lost my thought. Will you repeat what you were saying?
Marcus: Well, what we’re talking about here is what branding photography is and what it does. And you know, another great thing about branding photography for me, and I’m sure you agree, it’s super creative. And this is what we’re talking about here in pricing. It’s a lot of value you can add to it.
Meg: Yeah, that’s, that’s what, yep. It’s super creative. And one thing I always like, okay, so with this, that’s what I was going to say, because you were kind of talking about how like in the beat, you kind of have to like really hustle to find your clients in the beginning. And with that, so a couple of things, a couple of tips I have for your audience with this is if you want to try brand photography and like get into it. One, you want to like learn a little more about it and like the process, because it’s much different than portrait clients in the sense of you’re working with a business. So you have to kind of get out of the mindset of B2C, business to consumer, because now you’re B2B. You’re a business with another business owner. And so they, it’s different where it’s cool. Cause like business owners have the budget to invest in more like marketing photography. This is so important to their business. So they have the budget and they’re happy to spend money if they understand the value. And it’s like the right, it’s what they’re looking for. And with that, as you start to get into this industry, you know, now there is some education. I’m an educator, but when I started, like there was like nothing out there. So I kind of had to figure it out myself and I did. And something I’ve learned over the years from doing just hundreds of shoots is just the planning phase of a brand photo shoot is really key and important to understand their brand. Typically we send like a brand questionnaire and just really understand what they’re going to be using the photos for. It’s like that end use. You have to switch your mindset from, instead of a pretty picture, where will the photo be used on the website, on a social media graphic? Cause we get, then we have to shoot differently. Like the cropping is different. We need to get negative space to one side. We need to get a variety of full body and headshots and portraits and a lot of horizontal for like newsletters, websites, so little shifts like that. You just, you have to go in with a different mindset when you’re a personal branding photographer, cause you’re working for a business and just having a dialed in process really helps with that. And it’s something you’ll learn as you go, but really communicating upfront with your brand clients. Like, what do you need? What’s your vision? This is a big difference. It’s not about your vision as much as it’s about their vision now, because it’s their business. So they have a brand they have to be, that you’re going to need to consider for the photos so that the photos are going to look great on their website and be cohesive and attract the clients that they want. And so there’s that piece. And once you start to understand that and you have a dialed in process, you’re going to feel more confident talking to other brands about what you do and how you support them as a brand photographer. And then it’s just about getting, it’s a numbers game. It’s just about getting in front of more ideal clients and sharing what you offer. And of course, having a portfolio, I’d say like those three, a process, a portfolio, and then with marketing, just getting in front of your ideal clients, getting creative with how you can do that to really like leverage your time, market and get the word out. Because that’s something I see photographers drop the ball on a little bit. It’s like we didn’t get into this to be marketers. It’s not comfortable. It’s a skill we have to learn. It’s not something we’re necessarily born with and good at. I had to learn how to get good at marketing, but it’s a skill we have to learn in order to do this work that we love, in order to find those clients that are perfect for our photography.
Marcus: I agree with you totally. And obviously, you know, this program is all, you know, not all, a lot of this program is all about marketing. But it is also about photography and the importance that photography has. And yes, you’re right. There is process involved and this portfolio and then there’s the marketing. But let’s dig into the portfolio a little bit more and let’s talk about the difference that you see it between a branding photograph and a portrait, per se. What makes a branding photograph a branding photograph?
Meg: Yeah, the first thing that comes to mind is it tells a story. It tells a story of the brand and what the person does. And if you can capture that in a photograph and somebody can go to their website, go to their social media, start to scroll, look at their photos and understand what that business does, who they serve, how they stand out without even reading their Instagram bio, without even the website. If you can capture that in a photograph of what that business stands for, that’s what brand photography is. It’s like telling the story through the photos, which is so fun. And that’s what I like fell in love with about this niche. It’s so fun. It’s so creative. Every person you get is going to be different. Yes, they have their brand vision and their brand aesthetic and their brand colors. Maybe they dialed in, but there’s so much more to it where you get to be really creative and help them visually tell their story in a new way. That’s going to stop the scroll and really attract their ideal clients and really stand out in the saturated world we live in. Every industry is saturated. We talk about photography being saturated, photographers, but actually any of our clients who are business owners, their industries are saturated too. So that’s why they need brand photography. They need to really tell their story and communicate it so that they stand out online so that they can thrive as a business owner.
Marcus: Exactly. And as you say, they come to you maybe with very in-depth brand guidelines or whatever, but it’s for us as photographers to interpret that and put it into something that’s two-dimensional form that gets the message across, as you say, instantly. This whole idea about a photograph, you can look at it in a second and you can understand everything about the business. I mean, that’s a truism, isn’t it really? That’s what photography is great at. You can’t do that in video.
Meg: Yeah. No, I love the way you just described that was so perfect. That’s exactly what we do. And it’s a feeling. It’s like we’re trying to, every brand that you can think of that you love, it makes you feel something. There’s some kind of feeling attached to that, whether it’s freedom you feel from this brand, or maybe some examples would help here. Like with Nike, I just worked out and I love Nike and Nike’s on my mind. So like with Nike, it’s like when I look at their marketing and I think of their brand, I think of strong, fit, empowerment. That’s Nike to me, like self, I don’t know, self-improvement.
Marcus: But they do that with a tick, a tick, that little tick. Yes, you can do it. That’s all that you need to know. The swoosh, sorry, not the tick.
Meg: Nike swoosh, yeah. And so that’s part of the branding is the logo, but then of course their visuals. And then I think of like the brands I work with. Let me think of like a brand I worked with recently who I loved. She was a coach. She’s a rich single mom coach and she helps single moms really thrive in their careers so they can financially provide for their families, for their kids. And with her brand, some of the feelings we were trying to, excuse me, get across are like luxury, just like confidence and playful and fun. That was a big one. And so you can imagine what the photos might look like if luxury and playful and confidence are kind of the vibe we’re going for. And this all starts with your process of asking your clients and like having that conversation as you’re planning the brand shoot of what they want the images to portray.
Marcus: But it’s, and from a photography point of view, it’s having in your mind a rich library of images that you can refer to that you’re like a Rolodex where you’re going through and they say a word, luxury, they say fit, they say fun. And you’re going through those images in your mind, aren’t you? That you’ve seen, you know, that doesn’t happen overnight. It takes time to build up that library of images.
Meg: And like one of the, so just to like one of the, like one of the photos we created for her brand was like her walking in this, like in a beautiful, like elevated dress through a nice luxury hotel to portray that luxury vibe she was going for. But then we also got to tell the story of like her and her authentic, playful energy and roller skating at the beach because she loves going to the beach and she’s a personal brand. And she’s, so that’s what’s fun about personal brands is you get to tell not only the story of the brand and what they do through photos, but there’s the other side of just the personality shots and like who they are and kind of like showing that as well.
Marcus: And Meg, that’s what I love so much about your work and the way you talk about it. You do that and you’ve got the skills to do it, to take the photographs in the first place. I mean, it’s just so easy to drop into that, what I call the three Cs, the coffee cup and the computer. Those photographs that I just see everywhere on branding sites, because- Wait, you said the coffee, the computer- The coffee cup computer.
Meg: That’s so funny. Those are really, I would say overused and overdone. I’ve done it, I’ve used it. And I’m guilty of it.
Marcus: Yeah, we all are, but there is more to life. This, as you say, so okay, so how do you find, how do you go, how do you step above that, the three Cs and photograph something a bit more depth and interest? How do you do that, Meg? How do you do that?
Meg: Yeah, oh my gosh, this is such a good question because this is where I think I want to challenge our industry, those photographers who are doing brand photography and going for it, like let’s get creative. And I’m guilty of it, of like falling back on that because it’s an easy prop to hold and pose with. you can tell them, you know, grab the coffee cup and your brand colors, but can we like, can they get a logo, their logo printed on the cup? So it’s a little more personal of their brand and beyond the computer and coffee cup in the photo, what else, like what else can they have in the photo that really tells the story of what they do and their branding? Like if they’re a brand designer, can they have the computer and coffee cup there? Because you’re showing them behind the scenes working, but also can they have like their designs printed out and laid out on the counter? And can that be a focus of the photo and not just the coffee cup and computer? So a lot of times we can do this with adding in props and also location is really big. I’d say like those and wardrobe. Props, wardrobe, all of these elements can come together to make it more unique for that person in that brand and make the photo more interesting by adding in, you know, getting creative with instead of just like a white background and they’re on their computer with a coffee cup, which is kind of boring and overdone. It’s like, can you take them to a location that tells more of the story of what they do or who they are?
Marcus: And you do that, make the way that you talked about by having doing the research, you go in and you, you, you listen to what they are, you dig around on their brand, you see what they’ve got already going out there and you start thinking about how you can really build on that and give, you know, and having good ideas and making it, as you say, interesting for yourself. So, you know, when you mentioned the roller skating, I could just totally see it there, you know, branded roller skates on color, you know, the wind blowing, you know, shot low down with a 24 mil lens and all that. It’s all there, isn’t it? That’s what’s so great about branding photography.
Meg: Yeah, it’s fun. It’s, it’s really fun. You get to kind of like create this vision from scratch, even if you have some direction from the beginning, it’s like you get to really be the creative director.So that’s what’s a little bit of a big deal with like branding photography versus portrait and other niches is yes, you’re posing and directing the clients, but with branding, you really have to dive into like full on creative directing because you are recommending locations, props, what you’re helping them guide them with wardrobe shot lists. Like you’re really stepping in to like be the expert in all those areas. Whereas I feel like with other photography, it’s not really expected that we’re going to be supporting them with all that.
Marcus: No, it’s not even, you know, I mean, I draw a lot on my background as a fashion and an advertising photographer. And that to me is what a branding shoot is. It’s a combination of both of those. You’re going to make people look good and you’re going to sell what they do. Fashion advertising. That’s it really, you know. So let’s just with the coming up to the end of the program, maybe you could just tell us a little bit of a self promo, what you got coming up, Meg, because I know you’ve got some fantastic education programs on offer.
Meg: Yeah, like so I got into educating brand photographers. Actually, it was like right before 2020. I started growing a community because I just had a lot of photographers asking me questions, DMing me like, hey, how did you start doing this? These kind of photo shoots. It looks so fun. It looks so interesting. I’d love to try it. And so I started my free community for brand photographers, which I still have going, which you’re in. And I would love anyone who’s interested in learning more about brand photography to join that. And then I just started doing education because like I mentioned, I realized there was not a lot out there for branding, personal branding photography. And I have courses on like my process. My newest one is called the Brand Creator. And we go into like exactly how I plan a photo shoot, start to finish the questionnaire, the photo shoot map where we put the shot list and vision board. And it’s just showing my exact process. I’m so happy to share that. And I’m very candid and transparent. Like when I teach like you can ask me anything because I have I have an abundance mindset. And like there are so many clients out there, you guys right now for branding photography who need great brand photos, small business owners who don’t have it. And so yes, I have education for any photographers who want to learn more about like becoming a brand photographer and finding clients.
Marcus: Any particular place where they can come and find you Meg?
Meg: Yeah, let’s say Instagram is at Meg underscore Marie underscore photo Meg Marie photo or my Facebook community for brand photographers. It’s called the Brand Photographer Facebook community, but maybe we can link it below or something.
Marcus: That’s exactly what I was going to do Meg.
Meg: I do have freebies too like for brand photographers. So I’ll give you that link. We have some freebies like I did a really great workshop on three ways to make more like what is it? And now I forget the name. Money, marketing and magic as a brand photographer. It’s just one of my most popular free resources that photographers have loved because it’s kind of like how to get started in brand photography. So that could be fun.
Marcus: Brilliant. Okay. That’s fantastic. Meg, thank you so much for being on the show. Thanks for sharing your wisdom. And so thank you so much for echoing my lone voice. I think I tend to have about branding. It’s been absolutely brilliant. I hope do hope our listeners have enjoyed it as well. I’m sure they have. If you have enjoyed the show, of course, you know, the usual spiel, please subscribe, give us a like, make a comment, just get involved a little bit more into the show. And we absolutely love that.
Marcus: Meg, thanks very much.
Meg: Thank you, Marcus.
