Most commercial photographers post content and hope for the best, but effective marketing for photographers requires a deeper strategy. We examine the technical and psychological barriers that prevent followers from becoming high-paying clients.
The definitive platform choice for a commercial photographer, depending on whether they target large corporations or solopreneurs.
The surprising reason why a potential client might hire you on one app but ignore the same work on another.
Why massive engagement on Instagram often fails to translate into a booked calendar for a commercial photographer.
How to use the “human factor” on B2B platforms to build authority without sounding like a generic salesperson.
The technical mistake you are likely making when sharing links makes your content effectively invisible to your audience.
A specific 48-hour routine designed to “warm up” the algorithm before you post your most important content.
00:02.04
Sam Hollis
Hello listeners and welcome to Commercial Photographer. This week I am speaking to Jan from John Jelly. Hi Jan.
00:11.45
Jan
Hi, Sam. We good?
00:13.46
Sam Hollis
So yeah, I’ve known Jan for a long I don’t even know how long now Jan, but a long time.
00:19.08
Jan
Yes, it’s been a while.
00:21.30
Sam Hollis
um ah Jan is an expert in all sorts of areas, but we really are marketing, all sorts of areas of marketing. But I think what we’re going to chat about mainly today is there’s kind of different platforms available, um you know, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, all of those and kind of what’s involved in the different platforms, which ones you might want to be involved in, which ones you know, but really getting an understanding of them. um So, yeah, I think you’re kind of quite a platform expert, aren’t you, Jan?
00:48.52
Jan
I wouldn’t say platform expert, but I know how people use those platforms and then how you can leverage that.
00:55.61
Sam Hollis
Perfect. Cool. So is it is it good for us to just dive in or is there kind of some overall bit of an idea we need before we kind of get into the individual ones?
01:06.18
Jan
I think it’s good to understand that people are often in different mindsets, depending on which platform that they’re on. And often you can have the same person look at your work on different platforms
01:13.23
Sam Hollis
Okay.
01:18.95
Jan
And because they’re in two different mindsets, it might resonate particularly on one platform or not on the other.
01:24.95
Sam Hollis
I’d not thought of it like that before. So the same person is literally, you know, sat browsing Facebook and then they flick to LinkedIn and they could see almost the same thing, but would react to it differently.
01:36.38
Jan
Absolutely, because they’re they’re not they’re in a completely different headspace. So it’s very much um what are they what other things are they thinking?
01:40.66
Sam Hollis
Ah, interesting.
01:45.19
Jan
Are they in a work mindset? Are they in a social mindset? And that’s often reflected by the platform that they’ve chosen. And sometimes it’s just they’re so social short that I’m not going to resonate with them anyway, to be fair.
01:55.65
Sam Hollis
Ah.
02:01.53
Jan
But overall, yeah, it’s about how they’re thinking at the time they see your posts.
02:01.56
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
02:10.63
Sam Hollis
Accent. So, yeah, which could be challenging. So we’re going to have to make make some assumptions here. We’re obviously not going to know everyone’s thinking. We’re going to kind of have to make some assumptions about what what generally most people might be thinking because of the platform, because of the time of day, what they’re looking at, all those sorts of things.
02:23.24
Jan
Yes.
02:26.58
Jan
Yeah, and it is it’s it is general assumptions, but on the whole, um reasonable to assume that at least 50% of the audience are going to be thinking that at any one time. so but The three most popular ones are LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.
02:37.34
Sam Hollis
Okay, interesting. Cool. So, i I mean, what platforms do you think it’d be good to cover? What are the kind of key ones we really want to look at?
02:48.47
Jan
People are generally interested
02:48.56
Sam Hollis
Okay.
02:50.26
Jan
after three very different things depending on what platform they choose.
02:54.50
Sam Hollis
Okay. And then is it worth going into any others? Are they really kind of so big in the bunch that the others are kind of fringe?
03:01.00
Jan
There are some others like X, formerly Twitter, Substack, Threads, um but the three prime ones that people are most familiar with are those three.
03:11.88
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
03:14.28
Sam Hollis
Yeah. TikTok, that’s so it’s always kind of talk to us an up and coming, but not that many people seem to use it who are kind of more serious.
03:16.17
Jan
TikTok.
03:22.62
Jan
Yeah, I think TikTok very much depends on what it is you’re selling and why you want to use TikTok. And certainly there are personality types that are not going to be comfortable on TikTok.
03:36.09
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
03:36.59
Jan
It’s not going to be the right thing for them. But if you are that very outgoing, very buoyant, very, yeah, I’ll i’ll just switch camera on i fill and film and post it.
03:48.11
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
03:49.08
Jan
then, yeah, you may well find TikTok can be beneficial, but
03:52.12
Sam Hollis
Okay. But if you’re the one that’s going, I’m going to do my first LinkedIn video, it’s taken you a month and you’re still not sure, then it’s probably not for you.
03:58.82
Jan
then it’s probably not for you. No, it’s probably not. So, yeah, that it that one very much depends on your personality type, TikTok, and it can work for some.
04:07.50
Sam Hollis
Okay. Yeah.
04:09.05
Jan
There are some businesses that have made a huge, huge success, but for every success, there are thousands and thousands that never even get noticed.
04:17.38
Sam Hollis
Yeah. yeah
04:17.99
Jan
Oh, yeah.
04:19.41
Sam Hollis
That makes sense. Okay. So of those big three, then where do you want to start?
04:24.79
Jan
I think as we’re talking commercial, the logical place to start really is LinkedIn.
04:29.56
Sam Hollis
Yep.
04:30.36
Jan
people on People when they’re on LinkedIn tend to be more in a business mindset because it’s seen more as a business to business platform.
04:30.45
Sam Hollis
Okay.
04:35.54
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
04:37.76
Jan
So it’s very much business people talking to business people. So that tends to be what people expect, that more professional level, more I’m talking directly to a business and I expect that business to be a client.
04:54.88
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
04:55.35
Jan
So they’ve got invariably their business head on.
04:59.45
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
05:00.22
Jan
So they’re thinking much more in a commercial sense anyway, rather than just being laid back and being there for the sake of being in there. I don’t think there’s any anybody really active on LinkedIn that is there just because it’s another platform.
05:08.62
Sam Hollis
Yeah,
05:17.37
Jan
and
05:17.39
Sam Hollis
yeah yeah yeah, yeah. It’d be a funny place to be, wouldn’t it?
05:20.31
Jan
Yeah, it’s it’s not really, I mean, they term it as the social platform but it isn’t really it’s very it is very business to business
05:28.50
Sam Hollis
Yeah, it’s… Yeah, nobody nobody is going on LinkedIn because they’re going, well, this sounds like fun. I’m just going to join up on LinkedIn. They’re going on LinkedIn because they’ve looked at their business plan. They’ve made a marketing plan or whatever. They think it’s time to join.
05:43.22
Jan
exactly um so people’s mindset when they’re on a platform like linkedin tends to be more with their business head on they’re working They’re not there for fun.
05:56.43
Jan
They’re not there to socialise. They’re there to work. And they’re looking for things that will further their business, whether that’s connections or that’s services, goods, products, whatever.
05:59.13
Sam Hollis
Yep. Yep.
06:09.03
Jan
But it’s always with a mind to what can they get for their business.
06:14.87
Sam Hollis
Now that’s interesting, isn’t it? Thinking about that mindset when you’re thinking about what to post, what to comment, what to how to connect with people. I think people often think, oh, I’ll just post about that. But if you’re posting and you’ve got that in your mind thinking, right, they are looking for how to further their business, how can I help them with that? That suddenly gives you ideas and helps you be more engaging with the people on there.
06:38.55
Jan
ah Exactly. They’re not generally looking, for they’re not looking for entertainment.
06:43.85
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
06:44.15
Jan
However, they’re not averse to entertainment. They’re averse to something that will make them smile, that will make them laugh, that will make them think.
06:47.25
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
06:51.63
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yeah.
06:54.38
Jan
It’s just that their main purpose for going on there was to further their business.
06:59.02
Sam Hollis
So is is is a mix good, do you think, the kind of, you know, so that you get the human side and you kind of engage people a bit with just ah some of the odd thing that is a little bit fun and a little bit, this is what I did at the weekend, mixed with the furthering your business stuff so they’ve kind of got a bit of both sides?
07:15.80
Jan
Well, yeah, because people buy from people. At the end of the day, you are a human and they’re going to buy from you as a person rather than you as a brand.
07:20.52
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
07:25.24
Jan
Unless you are one of the top, top brands like, are we allowed to mention them?
07:25.42
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
07:30.08
Jan
Coca-Cola and McDonald’s.
07:30.60
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
07:32.88
Jan
If you’re someone like that and you will really are a household name, you’re selling on your brand and it doesn’t really matter the quality of what you’re putting out.
07:34.75
Sam Hollis
yeah
07:41.62
Jan
But for smaller businesses… both buying and selling, it’s about the people. It’s about the people behind it. So sharing some of what you’re doing,
07:53.27
Jan
So long as everything isn’t about what you had for breakfast or where you went at the weekend, once they get to know you that’s building trust.
07:56.61
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
08:03.02
Jan
And that’s an important thing in any marketing, whether it’s online, whether it’s video, whether it’s socials, it’s building trust.
08:03.36
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
08:09.52
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
08:09.56
Jan
So letting them see the person that they’re dealing with, which is why it’s really important to have an accurate, up-to-date, visible face on there.
08:22.55
Jan
but That but isn’t two millimeters big when you are on a phone.
08:28.38
Sam Hollis
Yep. And being a photographer is always absolutely the highest quality that you can.
08:29.18
Jan
yeah
08:33.50
Jan
Yes. So when we’re you’re talking about photographers on there, absolutely. Nothing fancy. A nice, straightforward head and shoulder shot where someone can recognize you if they met you in the street.
08:44.71
Sam Hollis
Yep.
08:45.23
Jan
that’s visible on a mobile device. Because probably about, maybe a little bit less with LinkedIn, but about 50% of people are on socials of some form on their mobile phone.
08:56.71
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
08:59.03
Jan
um So LinkedIn’s a little bit less. LinkedIn’s probably at higher proportion on their desktop because most people are still working on their desktop.
09:04.88
Sam Hollis
Yeah, because it is for people who are doing it at work. Yeah, yeah.
09:08.28
Jan
So it’s that look at, you know, yes, you want them to share that. Well, this is um what we did at the weekend. So we were out walking through Svedonia or we’ve been out with the kids.
09:20.99
Jan
And that’s getting a sense of who you are as a real life human to start that trust.
09:25.75
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
09:27.61
Jan
If all you ever post is those type of things, then they’re just getting to know the human.
09:31.20
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
09:33.82
Jan
They’re not really getting to know the business and what the business can do for them.
09:38.95
Sam Hollis
And presumably it’s also the converse can be true if you’re always very, you know, i did this job, I did this job, I did this job. They’re knowing what you do and they are and you’re not seen as a person almost.
09:48.76
Jan
yeah Well, it becomes very salesy then as well. If you’re constantly pushing that, hey, look at me, this is what I’ve done, I think.
09:53.10
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
09:56.75
Sam Hollis
Yeah, yeah.
09:58.47
Jan
That can be just as off-putting. It’s talking about, for especially for photographers, filmmakers, videographers and that, sharing the results it got for a client is often about a reproach.
10:14.30
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
10:14.84
Jan
So especially on LinkedIn, because actually then you’re talking about your client, what they got.
10:19.90
Sam Hollis
Yeah. So you’re saying how great they are rather than how great you are.
10:22.23
Jan
Yes, exactly.
10:23.71
Sam Hollis
Yeah. yeah
10:24.70
Jan
And it’s what you did for the client, because at the end of the day, that’s really what someone’s interested in.
10:27.79
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
10:31.10
Jan
What did you do for somebody else? And can you do it for me?
10:34.03
Sam Hollis
yeah Yeah. That’s a lot, isn’t it A lot of the marketing books, the Seth Godin stuff is all about, you know, yeah, I can see you’re helping people like me. Therefore, I want you to help me too.
10:44.47
Jan
Yeah, and old-fashioned marketing tactics work. It’s just how we deliver them has changed.
10:54.67
Sam Hollis
Excellent.
10:54.78
Jan
So…
10:54.91
Sam Hollis
So that’s kind of linked in. And do you have thoughts on kind of the approach to kind of connections and and personal messages on there?
11:02.87
Jan
Yeah, i i’m very I’m not very conventional when it comes to building communities on LinkedIn because being being an analyst and how the algorithms work,
11:15.73
Jan
And linking with absolutely anybody and everybody can be counterproductive because the people who need to see your message can then not see it.
11:27.77
Jan
So if you’re only going to be shown to 10 out of every 100 people, you want those to know that those 10 good quality. Yeah.
11:36.99
Sam Hollis
Yeah, so if you just connect with a load of people, yeah, you could be just being shown to a load of people who it’s not relevant to at all.
11:43.13
Jan
Exactly. and And then you’re just going to be lost. They’re not going to engage. They’re not going to interact. So you’re going to get shown to less people.
11:50.61
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
11:51.86
Jan
So making sure that you curate who you’re connecting with to keep the quality there.
11:56.27
Sam Hollis
Okay. Yeah.
12:00.00
Sam Hollis
Okay, excellent.
12:00.66
Jan
And the rest there’s an argument of yes, but you don’t know who they know.
12:00.98
Sam Hollis
up
12:07.06
Jan
But if they don’t know you, why are they going to recommend you to someone else?
12:09.65
Sam Hollis
They’re not going connect you to anyone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that sort of thing takes a long time in person networking events. We’re getting to know them. Nevermind, you know, I leave someone saying you post once on LinkedIn.
12:18.31
Jan
Yes.
12:23.35
Jan
Yeah, I mean, if it takes 13 touches to to actually get a client, a potential client to engage with you, you know, and dropping sales messages straight into the direct messaging system on LinkedIn is the quickest way to hack people off.
12:29.61
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
12:41.65
Sam Hollis
Yeah, and there are a lot of posts about that. other but My feed is just full of posts of people, oh my God, here it goes again. I get that with mortgage advisors. Would you like to switch your mortgage? It’s like, well, I mean, apart from me not living in the UK, well, I’m about put you apart from me not having a mortgage in the UK because live in another country. Somebody you might want to build trust with is probably the person you’re going to just, you know, deal with your largest amount of money you ever probably going to deal with in your life. And you’re just like, oh yeah, I’ll change now because you’ve sent me a random message.
13:09.34
Jan
Yeah, and that’s it. And and just sending people a diatribe about what it is you do, um is yeah that you’re not going to get a positive response from that.
13:20.54
Jan
um I hear this all the time. You hear this all the time. oh God, they just sent me all this rubbish in a direct message.
13:26.34
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
13:27.30
Jan
Why on earth would I want to stay connected with them? But there are ways to use direct messaging to your advantage.
13:29.70
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
13:34.42
Jan
but it has to be thought out, it has to be structured, and you have to think of it as a conversation.
13:34.44
Sam Hollis
OK.
13:40.38
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
13:40.47
Jan
You wouldn’t walk up to somebody in the street and say, hi, I’m Jan, this is what I do, this is what I’m selling you. You just wouldn’t do it.
13:48.10
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Even if you’re at a networking event, you might stand up and say at the beginning, but actually when you bump into somebody and you’re having a cup of coffee, that’s not the conversation you have, is it?
13:57.57
Jan
No, and if it’s anything like the network events I go to, it is, how’s the kids, how’s the wife?
14:03.05
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
14:03.18
Jan
and And you’re building that rapport, getting to know the person behind the business, because it gives you a good indication then whether you actually feel comfortable recommending them, whether you feel comfortable using their services yourself.
14:09.38
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
14:19.94
Jan
And I don’t think it’s any different on LinkedIn to how you do it in person.
14:20.59
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
14:25.38
Sam Hollis
Yeah, it’s just a slightly different approach, but it is that, yeah, having that conversation.
14:28.46
Jan
Different media. Yeah, but it’s the same.
14:29.96
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
14:30.82
Jan
So yes, direct messaging works, but it has to be thought thrown and thought out. Very much thought thrown and thought out.
14:38.45
Sam Hollis
Makes sense. Cool. Should we think about some of the other platforms then? um So what’s your thoughts on, so Instagram is kind of a go-to for photographers because, you know, whether it is now a real photography place, it certainly, that’s where started, isn’t it? With the kind of whole reels, it is kind of much more video focused, but it’s kind of seen as the photographer’s platform. Where can you put your pretty pictures?
14:59.92
Sam Hollis
Instagram.
15:01.51
Jan
Yeah, I mean, it’s the go-to for an awful lot of creatives and Instagram has some advantages. But when you think about people’s mindset, again, when we’re talking about Instagram, they’re looking through they’re looking for pretty pictures, they’re looking for nice things, they’re looking for inspiration. a bit like Pinterest, they’re looking for that inspiration, those inspirational pictures and images. Yeah.
15:26.01
Jan
And it’s really, really great on Instagram. You can build a following very, very quickly.
15:32.58
Sam Hollis
yeah right
15:32.63
Jan
However, it is one of the most difficult ones to convert on because generally people have to actively click to go to your profile to then actively click to get to your website.
15:49.55
Sam Hollis
Yeah, because they don’t let you put links in post, do they?
15:51.91
Jan
No, you can’t put links in posts. You can now put links on some stories, not all. And it depends where you are and how long you’ve been using Instagram.
15:57.04
Sam Hollis
Okay.
16:00.36
Jan
So it is possible to have links on Instagram now.
16:00.40
Sam Hollis
Okay.
16:03.08
Jan
However, most people are going to look at the general posts.
16:07.97
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
16:08.57
Jan
And you’re not it’s very difficult to get someone to take that effort to click away from the scroll and then click again to go away from the platform.
16:13.90
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
16:19.46
Sam Hollis
Yeah, and they get warning. I mean, certainly on Facebook, you get warnings, don’t you? You are leaving the platform, aren’t you? Get on LinkedIn too. Are you sure you ought to do this? My God, why would you ever want to leave us?
16:28.10
Jan
Well, yeah, and they’re in by the same people. So absolutely, it can be really difficult to get them away from what they’re doing. And to be fair, their mindset is they just want to be entertained.
16:39.79
Jan
They’re just scrolling through for that visual entertainment.
16:40.34
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
16:44.47
Jan
And they rarely actually even read the text that goes along with the images.
16:44.74
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
16:50.52
Sam Hollis
Yeah, they’re just looking. I mean, i mean I’ve talked some photographers spent a long time making their profile pretty so they’ve deliberately organized the pictures in the grid so they look nice.
16:51.77
Jan
Yes.
16:59.04
Sam Hollis
Apparently there’s even apps there. But I’m like, who’s going to your profile? Let’s be honest, everyone’s sc scrolling through the posts. They’re not going, oh, I must go and see that person’s profile.
17:08.09
Jan
Exactly. um You have to have something that has really, really stopped them in their tracks to make them click away from that as well.
17:15.25
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
17:18.85
Sam Hollis
Yeah. And with the video as well, that’s even harder if you’re just doing images, isn’t it?
17:23.48
Jan
Oh, yeah, because they’ll just watch reel after reel after reel.
17:26.06
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
17:26.18
Jan
To get them to to actually take an action is much more difficult on Instagram. And you I work with photographers, I work with…
17:33.08
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
17:36.02
Jan
um filmmakers and videographers and it’s the same thing if you want brand awareness great if you actually want clients not so great
17:46.74
Sam Hollis
not that be Not that helpful. so yeah And that’s even for the videographers where they can make those reels relatively easily. They’ve got lots of content for it.
17:54.51
Jan
oh yeah it it doesn’t matter you’re still having to persuade someone to leave what they’re doing
17:58.90
Sam Hollis
Yeah. So it’s almost like very much I’m chilled. I’m in the sofa. I ain’t getting up. I’ve got my cup of coffee. I’m here for 10 minutes or half an hour if you suddenly lose track of time.
18:10.42
Sam Hollis
But I’m not doing anything else. I’m not. Yeah. I’m kind of chilled.
18:12.99
Jan
Yeah, that’s it.
18:13.46
Sam Hollis
i’m Yeah. it
18:15.93
Jan
And it’s that because you are interrupting the flow.
18:19.73
Sam Hollis
Yeah, yeah.
18:21.82
Jan
So, you know, it has to be pretty damn important for them to want to to their flow to be interrupted.
18:29.11
Sam Hollis
Yeah, yeah. And Instagram are working against you on that because they want you to sit looking at it all and stay there, don’t they?
18:34.71
Jan
Exactly. then You know, there’s there’s not a lot of people that… are actively going, oh, I need to go and look at that. Oh, no, I need to go and look at that profile. I need to go and look at that profile.
18:45.38
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
18:47.00
Jan
You know, they might go to one profile and perhaps every visit, but probably not.
18:53.33
Sam Hollis
and you And you can follow that if they really like the post they can follow without going to the profile, can’t they? So it’s not like they have to go there to go, oho I like that.
18:58.13
Jan
Yes.
18:59.69
Sam Hollis
I’ll see more. and It’s only a click and carry on.
19:03.06
Jan
Yeah, so you know it’s not it’s not a difficult thing to build that following. You can build the following very, very quickly, but it’s a lot harder to convert lot harder to convert to clients.
19:07.76
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
19:12.06
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
19:13.91
Jan
So you have to ask yourself, why are you there? Why are you spending that time and that energy
19:18.88
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
19:22.84
Jan
if you’re not gonna if you’re unlikely to convert it into clients as quickly as another platform?
19:27.11
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
19:31.38
Sam Hollis
Makes sense. So I’m getting the undertones here of relatively, I’m not sure Instagram is really going to help that much. It’s, you know, it’s some vanity. You get the numbers, but actually they’re not that helpful.
19:44.61
Jan
And that’s it. I mean, there’s a lot of talk lately about vanity metrics and having lots of reach and lots of impressions are just vanity metrics.
19:48.50
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
19:56.88
Jan
It’s not really for a business what’s going to cut it.
20:01.46
Sam Hollis
No, that’s it.
20:01.53
Jan
not the think you should practice
20:01.90
Sam Hollis
And presumably if you’re just starting, they’re quite useful until you start to then move them. But if if it doesn’t go beyond that, yeah.
20:08.79
Jan
Yes, that’s it. You need to be looking at the real numbers, the one that are going to change the bank account
20:15.17
Sam Hollis
Yeah, makes sense. So what what about Facebook then? Are you actually down on Facebook or are you a bit more are you a bit more kind of neutral on that one? Or positive people?
20:26.01
Jan
like Facebook is a different animal again, so people are more inclined to read the posts on Facebook.
20:34.03
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
20:35.58
Jan
They will read a lot more texts than they would on Instagram. They like to have that visual image or video and context.
20:48.44
Jan
If you want people to click through, then again, you are stopping them in their tracks and interrupting their flow, but they’re more inclined to accept that on Facebook.
20:56.90
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
21:02.90
Sam Hollis
Yeah. I guess the text is more in your face, isn’t it?
21:04.28
Jan
Plus,
21:06.18
Sam Hollis
It’s there. Like you said, if it on Instagram, you’ve got to say something like, see the link in bio to get this offer or whatever it is. And then they’ve got to go to your bio. Then they’ve got to find the link. oh It’s a right.
21:16.44
Sam Hollis
Well, it is there and they can just click, can’t they? Which is a massive difference.
21:21.33
Jan
Yeah, and the advantage of Facebook is you can actually pop a link within the text of the post.
21:26.08
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yeah.
21:27.80
Jan
However, what you don’t want to do is have a a link where you have got the link summary. You actually want to put a static image or a video up and the link because otherwise Facebook could penalise you.
21:37.94
Sam Hollis
Right.
21:44.11
Sam Hollis
Right.
21:49.24
Sam Hollis
So what do you mean by link summary?
21:51.35
Jan
So when you add a link to Facebook, it automatically generates this this little summary, which is usually an image.
21:53.98
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
21:58.65
Sam Hollis
Oh, it’s it’s like that kind of where you put the link in, it kind of gives you an image.
21:59.64
Jan
It
22:02.01
Sam Hollis
That. Yeah.
22:02.97
Jan
gives you an image with it with a little bit underneath it, generally with the title text.
22:03.92
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yeah. yeah yeah
22:07.26
Jan
um So you get that little summary of what that link is.
22:10.14
Sam Hollis
Okay.
22:10.78
Jan
If you put a link in there alone, then Facebook immediately goes, you’re trying to take me away from the platform, oh, I’m not having this, and you’ll be downgraded so you’ll get less reach.
22:18.14
Sam Hollis
Yeah. yeah
22:20.73
Sam Hollis
Okay.
22:22.90
Jan
There are some people that say what you should do is you should have um the you should have that link in the first comment. However,
22:31.38
Sam Hollis
Yeah. so I’ve seen a lot of people use that.
22:34.68
Jan
how that has a huge drawback.
22:37.05
Sam Hollis
ah Which is it’s not there to click.
22:39.36
Jan
Well, it’s only people on the original post see the link.
22:45.11
Sam Hollis
Ah, so if it’s reposted, that goes.
22:46.97
Jan
Second, it’s shared, it doesn’t go with it.
22:48.50
Sam Hollis
Okay. Ah, yeah, yeah, then you’re stuffed, aren’t you?
22:51.21
Jan
does on LinkedIn, doesn’t on Facebook.
22:54.07
Sam Hollis
Ah, right, yeah, that’s a massive issue.
22:55.00
Jan
So, and because it doesn’t go with the share, you can’t control that first comment at its destination, okay?
23:03.67
Sam Hollis
Yeah, yeah,
23:06.14
Sam Hollis
Yeah,
23:07.22
Jan
So the trick to to Facebook is to write something really, really nice, have that link, but have a static image you have chosen.
23:16.41
Sam Hollis
Yeah, so ditch the automated thing it creates and put an image in yourself.
23:19.35
Jan
Yes. Yes. you So upload an image or upload a short video and then have the link just after all your text introducing it.
23:27.70
Sam Hollis
you were Skipping quickly back to LinkedIn because that does exactly the same. do you recommend the same on LinkedIn or as it not make much difference?
23:33.69
Jan
and LinkedIn, you can put it in that first comment because the comments go with the post when the Ditch it and ditch it, absolutely ditch it.
23:39.48
Sam Hollis
Yeah, but in terms if you do put the link in the post, Do you keep that auto image or do you think again, it’s worth ditching it and putting something in yourself? Okay.
23:50.46
Jan
Put your own in. You choose what goes there.
23:52.57
Sam Hollis
Yeah. yeah
23:53.50
Jan
Again, the algorithms will favor that a little.
23:53.68
Sam Hollis
Okay.
23:57.05
Sam Hollis
Okay. Sorry.
23:58.01
Jan
But yeah, on LinkedIn, it’s easier to put it in the first comment because that comment goes with the post wherever it goes.
23:58.40
Sam Hollis
Jumping back to Facebook. Okay. Yeah. yeah
24:04.06
Jan
It doesn’t when you share it on Facebook.
24:04.06
Sam Hollis
That makes sense. Okay, but in terms of Facebook, it is possible to kind of grow a following and get an engaged following, get following that will actually convert, you think.
24:14.71
Jan
Oh, absolutely. You can.
24:15.90
Sam Hollis
Okay.
24:16.14
Jan
You do it right. You have a good approach, a good mix of brand awareness and sales um information. hints and tips, all of those things together so that you build that trust with people, absolutely you can convert them.
24:33.56
Jan
I work the charity, I do that for the charity constantly.
24:33.78
Sam Hollis
Okay, and…
24:38.07
Sam Hollis
And you think in terms of like a commercial photographer, what’s that like? If you can like only choose one platform, would it be LinkedIn every time? Or if you did it right, can Facebook be just effective or more effective?
24:50.24
Jan
If you’re targeting larger organisations, then absolutely i will go down the LinkedIn route.
24:53.95
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
24:56.49
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
24:57.11
Jan
If you work with smaller businesses and solopreneurs, Facebook can be just as effective, if not more effective sometimes if you’re working for smaller much much smaller companies.
25:04.57
Sam Hollis
Okay.
25:09.88
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Okay. But you’ve got to get the the messaging, right? The post, right? The what you’re doing, right?
25:16.34
Jan
Yeah, absolutely. And there are people out there who are really, really successful out at it. Photographers, filmmakers, videographers, yeah.
25:21.42
Sam Hollis
Yep.
25:23.86
Jan
The creatives, they have nailed that.
25:25.50
Sam Hollis
Okay. Yep.
25:27.29
Jan
But it takes work. Whatever you do, it takes work, it takes effort, and it takes consistency. Whichever one you choose, it takes consistency.
25:35.01
Sam Hollis
Yep.
25:37.27
Sam Hollis
which i think which is something we come back to again, again, again, and all the marketing. We did a show last week about email marketing, and it’s the same message, whatever it is, it’s consistency, isn’t it?
25:46.72
Jan
Yeah, that’s what marketing’s about. It’s consistently appearing in front of people with the right message, to the right person at the right time. And that’s when it works for you.
25:56.84
Sam Hollis
Yeah, perfect. I can feel a whole nother show coming on here, Jan, where we talk about how we actually do this in Facebook, because we’re running out of time now. And there’s a awful lot to go into there because we, I think, Mark and I automatically think, well, LinkedIn, because you kind of, there’s people who are in business and they’re automatically filtering out a lot of people who aren’t in business because you’ve got to deal with all of Facebook. So I like i think definitely we we I can feel another show coming on here. We can go about how you can really make Facebook work for you.
26:24.18
Jan
Totally. Yeah, that’s fine.
26:26.68
Sam Hollis
Cool. any Before we go, any last kind of hints and tips if people are working on their social media, little things they could kind of do tomorrow just to improve what they’re doing?
26:37.50
Jan
Good one for LinkedIn is put something out that’s quick and dirty and is designed for engagement before you put out a post that you want them to actually read and take action with no more than 48 hours prior.
26:46.17
Sam Hollis
Okay.
26:52.86
Sam Hollis
Okay. Excellent.
26:56.57
Sam Hollis
Okay, interesting. Sounds good. And then if people want to get in touch, Jan, how can they find you?
27:02.84
Jan
they can go through the website, which is johnjelly.co.uk and they can email me at jan at johnjelly.co.uk.
27:11.58
Sam Hollis
Perfect. Excellent. Thank you so much, Jan. There are all sorts we’ve learned today. That has been amazing. Thank you for taking the time and being with us.
27:19.37
Jan
You’re welcome.
27:20.63
Sam Hollis
Cool.
27:20.78
Jan
Cheers.
27:20.91
Sam Hollis
And listeners, I will see you all next week. Thanks so much. And thanks, Jan.
27:26.20
Jan
yes
