“Show Notes”
Mark Kensett is a photographer and has worked in it for 40 years since he was 17. Mark started in a commercial studio when he was 17-then co-founded a studio for a while. He finally sold his share in that and then moved on to work for himself. Mark says his early work was all done on large-format film cameras. Sam asks if he can tell us about some of the clients he has worked with or shoots he has done over the years. Mark started as a food photographer and told us about a shoot he did with a food client who worked with the top chefs of the day. He did a commercial shoot during the day and presented a slide show by the end of the day, which was a lot of stress and work getting everything processed in time.
He says it was interesting moving from large format cameras to high-quality digital. And they very quickly moved to digital as they saw how good it was. The studio he worked from was an early adopter of digital.
Sam asks what he is working on now. Mark says he still works with food and some education customers. He also works with human rights charities. He should be going to Peru next month. Sam asks what he does about charity photography work. Mark says he has a sliding scale and tends to look at what something is worth beyond the financial. So is it good for his portfolio, does he believe in the cause etc? So he looks at these factors and where he will charge them on his sliding scale that goes from free to full corporate rate.
Marcus says Mark does a wide range of photography and has wondered if he has ever thought about moving into a niche. Mark says that his training in the studio was very broad. He doesn’t do portraits and weddings but still does a wide range of work. He also thinks that within London you could niche very tightly, but less so in the regions.
Mark talks about charging for clients. He says deciding a “day rate” is quite an art. It partly depends on what the market will take, his investment in the kit and other factors.
Sam asks about personal projects. He says he did a lot of dance photography. It started because his daughter was at a dance school. He did some photography for free for the dance school. He then worked with a designer on a book showing dance photography. This opened doors to commercial clients. Sam says that this is a similar story to Joe Giacomet whose personal project with football cards led to lots of work.
Marcus asks about photographers who inspire him. Mark says Yousef Karsh has been there from day one. He was also inspired by his Uncle who was also a Karsh fan. Sebastian Selgado is another photographer he admires both in terms of his photography and what he does. Joey Lawrence is a young portrait photographer in New York.
Sam asks what words of advice he has for new photographers. Mark is helping to mentor some young photographers. Mark says those leaving education are creative but don’t often have the business and marketing skills. He says you have to do personal work. He thinks this is where you learn fastest. Getting out there and learning from your mistakes is so important.
Marcus says there is a film out about the photographer Lee Miller. Marcus asks if it’s still “cool” to be a photographer. He thinks maybe fashion photographers like Marcus are cool but not him.
Marcus asks what is happening next. Mark says he he off to Peru with Edukids. Mark says he is aware he is entering the third stage of his career. He tries to stay fit but realises it is a young man’s game and he is conscious that he is getting older. So he is starting to develop a mentoring program for young photographers and helping them become visual storytellers.
“Show Transcription”
Msrcus: Well, hello, Sam. How are you?
Sam: Very good, Marcus. And how about you?
Marcus: Yeah, I’m very well, thank you, mate. Very well.
Sam: Excellent.
Marcus: And very excited about today’s guest because we’ve got a fellow photographer on.
Sam: Excellent.
Marcus: I’m going to let him introduce himself as we normally do in this program. So let’s go over to Mark.
Mark: Hi, guys.
Sam: Welcome to the show.
Mark: My name is Mark Kensett. I’m a commercial photographer of 40 years standing, man and boys. Started when I was 17 in the industry. So you can work out my age from that. So my history in a nutshell is I was so I left school, started in a commercial studio when I was 17, worked there for 13 years and then co-founded a studio with a partner for 12 years and then sold my share of that to sort of be my own boss totally. And I’ve been doing that for the last 17 as a freelancer, I suppose is the best term. So so that’s my that’s my history in a nutshell.
Marcus: Gosh, I think you’ve got a record. It’s probably one of the most experienced photographers we’d have in the show. Is that right? I’d have thought so.
Sam: Yeah, it is.
Marcus: Yeah. You’ve seen a lot of changes in that time. I’m back, Mark, haven’t you? I mean, obviously too many to mention, but wow, what a career.
Mark: Yeah. I mean, obviously, film was the big thing. Digital was was not really a thing back back in the early 80s. And a lot of my early work was all shot on on sheet film. So ten by eight transparency, five by four transparency and then two and a quarter square Hasselblad. So I didn’t really do much with 35 millimetre cameras back in those days. But obviously now, well, I still use my large format cameras. You can probably see. But a lot a lot of this and mirrorless DS and DSLR nowadays as well.
Sam: OK, excellent. And then, I mean, can you share maybe a few of the interesting people you’ve worked with or things you’ve shot over the over the years?
Mark: Well, I suppose I mean, clients. So I come from a stable of experienced food photographers.
So I guess I did a lot of food for the sort of big supermarkets and things like that back in the day. So a lot of retail packaging and things like that. But I think one of my favourite jobs way back in the distance was we had a food service client who employed a lot of the sort of top chefs of the day. But we basically we had to shoot a day’s shoot in a kitchen with a commercial chef. And then present a slideshow at the end of the day. So, of course, it was all in film in those days. So we had to process the film in the afternoon and then present the slideshow in the evening. So that was quite, quite stressful. But good on the you know, it was it was good fun to do. Yeah. So we got to we were we did one at Murrayfield, one at the Museum of Wales. And yeah, all all over the country, really. So that was that was good fun.
Sam: Amazing.
Marcus: Presumably that was your early practice. And that’s why you were shooting on large format cameras doing shoot film, etc. Detail was all important.
Mark: Yes. Yeah. And it was interesting to make that transition from from large format transparency to to a high end digital as well, because originally the first digital cameras we bought were only six megapixel. But because they were what they call multi shot backs, they were very clean images. And we were a bit surprised. We bought we bought we bought a digital camera that thinking it would just be for catalogue and we’d still continue shooting film for some of the packaging work, but soon transitioned into the digital as well because the information was so clean. And obviously, we’re now shooting 150 megapixel images with a phase one back now. I mean, I haven’t got 150 megapixel back. But the transition and obviously the dynamic range of the backs is huge as well compared to transparency. So it’s been yeah, it’s been amazing sort of being part of that journey. We were actually one of the early adopters for digital as well, the studio. So we did a lot of work with Marks and Spencer’s developing their digital workflow. And so they we learned a lot from from them as well. So that was interesting.
Sam: Amazing. And then so moving on to now, what are you kind of what are you working on now? What do you what does your client base look like?
Mark: So still some food photography and also quite a lot in the education sector. So I’ve got a medical school as a client, university colleges. And then I’ve got a couple of human rights charities that I work for, too. They’re the ones that take me gallivanting across the world. So hopefully going to Peru next month, actually, with one of them. So, yeah, so so, yeah, so that’s working with things like climate justice, with street pavement dwelling communities in India. And then also I’ve been out to the West Bank and Gaza as well.
Sam: So, yeah, amazing experiences. And we’ve had quite a lot of chat on the show, Marcus, haven’t we? About kind of charities. And do we kind of work for free? Do you work full price? Do you work kind of maybe at a reduced rate? Kind of what’s your thoughts and approach there?
Mark: Yeah, it’s a complicated issue. And I’ve heard you guys chatting about it. And I tend to have a bit of a sliding scale. So I have done some work for free. And obviously, I have a full corporate rate as well. And I try and look at purpose beyond price. So I’m looking at what something is worth beyond just the financial. So it could be portfolio. It could be that I believe in the project. I believe in the cause behind the charity. Or it could be that I’m helping somebody start their own work as well. So yeah, so I have a scale dependent on what that value is beyond just the financial.
Sam: OK, that’s interesting. So you’re kind of like, well, if this is going to be amazing for my portfolio, I’ll charge less. Or if it’s really I’m not that interested in the cause, it’s not something I think is going to help me. Then, you know, they just pay the full rate.
Mark: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s not an exact science.
Sam: Yeah, of course.
Mark: But you recognize that some of the charity work, they just don’t have the budget that a corporate would have. But I don’t want to compromise the quality and the message that they’re putting out. So I’d still want to give them my full attention, if you like.
Sam: That makes sense.
Marcus: I mean, looking through your website, Mark, I noticed that, you know, and from what you’re telling us, you know, you’re doing a fantastic range of photography, documentary, through photography, people, commercial. And, you know, as I sort of worked in a similar length or span of career as you have, we didn’t really think about niching down. You’ve obviously not really chosen to niche down as such, as far as I can tell. Do you think that’s because you think you’re missing out there, or are you quite happy with the way it is, Mark?
Mark: Well, I don’t know how you’ve explained it. I think you’re based in Bristol. Is that right, Marcus?
Marcus: Yeah, I am.
Mark: So I’ve found, so my foundation working in a big commercial studio was very broad. I mean, I shot weddings and portraits, but I haven’t done that for a long time. So it is commercial work now. And I’ve tried to sort of hone down a little bit. But what I’ve found is, working in the north of England, is that you can’t be too niche, because there just isn’t the volume of work. So you have to have a broader base. You know, I think if you’re in London, for example, I think you can be really quite tight on the sort of work that you do. So I think just partly it’s a survival thing, just to have a broader base. But I also find that there’s a certain cross-pollination of working across broader spectrum. So I learned certain skill sets from working in one genre that I can then apply to another. So I think, you know, I wouldn’t have learned certain techniques had I not had that broader base, I think. And you can apply them across. And I found that quite valuable.
Sam: Good answer. Yeah, interesting. Excellent. And then do you have some clients that kind of particularly do well in terms of, you know, commercial clients that get you quite a lot of money for the business compared to other clients?
Mark: Yeah. So, you know, like I say, the corporate end of the market, you’re charging a higher rate. And I mean, it depends on the day rate that we talk about nowadays. I mean, it’s not an exact science, but some of it’s based on experience. Some of it’s what the market will stand. And also the amount of equipment that you have to invest in. So I’ve got quite a heavy investment in equipment for a single photographer working on his own, because sometimes I’ve had to use maybe 10 heads and a large format camera on a set, for example.
And there’s quite a high level of investment to do that. So you charge accordingly. The other slight problem with working in Hull, so I’m in East Yorkshire, is that the rental houses are not on your doorstep. So if you’re working in Manchester, London, you know, a lot of photographers now, they don’t own a lot of kit. They rent it out on the job as and when they need it. Whereas I find it’s a lot more convenient to actually own the kit because it’s just more faff, basically, renting in when you haven’t got the rental houses on your doorstep.
Sam: Yeah, that makes total sense. OK. And then what about… Cool. I was just going to say, and then what about personal work? Without the, with all you’re doing lots of commercial stuff, does then that lead to some personal project? And are they kind of related to your commercial work or quite different?
Mark: Yeah, I mean, I think one of my favourite personal projects was actually, I don’t know if you see on my website, I did a lot of sort of dance and performing arts photography a few years ago. This all started because my daughter was dancing at a dance school. And I had a conversation with them and they said, oh, well, can we do some dance photography? So I did that for free. And then got chatting with a prospective client who was a graphic designer who, it turned out, trained there in the same venue when it used to be an art college. And he said, well, I’ll tell you what, if you do the photography, I’ll design the book. And so we did this joint project together, which we weren’t being paid for. But it developed into having a client, the design client, and an amazing portfolio piece that I could then present to people. And it was a great discussion starter when you’re presenting your work to prospective clients. So creatively, it was really exciting, but also it helped develop openings with new clients as well.
Sam: OK, that’s interesting story, isn’t it, Marcus, to when we had Joe Giacometta on a while ago, and he did some football cards which got very famous and they were kind of novelty football cards with people with crazy hair, weren’t they? Very 70s styling. And yeah, and it was a personal project, but got him known and got him lots of work. But it was just kind of a fun thing to do in lockdown when he was doing it.
Marcus: Yeah, personal work, so important to do. We’ve obviously been banging on about that quite a lot. I see you’ve got a quote from Joseph Karsh at the Royal Nice website, one of my favourite photographers. You’ve got any inspiration from there, Mark?
Mark: Well, Joseph Karsh has been there from day one. I mean, I was inspired by my uncle got me into photography when I was 13. And he was a big Karsh fan. And yeah, I think is it the heart and mind of the true lens of the camera? Is that the quote?
Marcus: That’s right, yes.
Mark: Yeah, I love that. Yeah. And then, I mean, other photographers that I’ve enjoyed over the years, I suppose. I mean, always the sort of classics, you know, Cartier-Bresson, people like that. But more recently, Sebastian Salgado.
Marcus:n Of course, I thought you might mention him somehow.
Mark: He’s just stunning, absolutely stunning. But it’s beyond the photography for me with him. He’s just as a humanitarian and an inspiring character. I’ve heard various podcasts that he’s been interviewed. Absolutely incredible. And then a young, you know, because I can say this because he’s younger than me, but a young whippersnapper is a guy called Joey Lawrence, who he’s a portrait photographer based in, he’s Canadian, actually, but he’s based in New York, I think. And his work is stunning. And he embeds himself with the PKK in Kurdistan and goes out and photographs his holy men in Varanasi in India. But then does Lavazza corporate calendar or something, you know, along those lines. And it’s just brilliant. But he works a lot on, he actually shoots medium format on a phase one camera, takes pro photo heads with him and shoots portraits in the field using sort of medium format kit as well. And they’re just I think I just love the classic simplicity of his work. It’s really beautifully lit, really, really crafted, I think, which I really enjoy.
Marcus: Well, we’ll put some notes to all those people in the links down below and all of that kind of thing. Yeah, that’s a good list you’ve got there. I like that. That’s very good. You mentioned, obviously, you switched it. When did you switch to digital?
Mark: It was well, it was a transition. But 1999 was when we bought our first digital camera.
We were one of the first three or four to buy the Cynar digital back in this country, I think.
Marcus: Cynar, yes. I went over to Cynar factory over in Switzerland to go and see that digital back. And they did a demonstration. Yeah, it was quite a nice bit of kit, quite blown away.
Mark: Yeah. I mean, it was it was a scary investment. It was quite a lot of money at the time. Yeah, but it obviously integrated with our Cynar film cameras. So that was 99. But what we did was we ran the two in parallel. We shot digital and we shot film along. And we basically gave the client the choice and said, look, these are the pluses and minuses. This is these are the cost implications. It’s your choice at the end of the day. And it didn’t take long to transition really over to from film to digital more rapidly than we were expecting. It was a very exciting time, actually. We were developing digital workflows with Marks & Spencer at the time. And so we were getting a lot of feedback from them about what was required from a digital image. And so it was a steep learning curve. But yeah, it was it was good fun.
Sam: So you’ve got obviously a huge amount of experience. I mean, we’ve got some listeners who have lots of experience, but some who are starting out to somebody’s kind of starting out. What kind of words of advice you’ve got for them to kind of to help them help them on their journey as a professional photographer?
Mark: Yes, good question, isn’t it? Because it’s a very different world now. I am actually doing a spot of mentoring with some youngsters at the moment. And we’re looking at the sort of your progression, your pathway, because I’m finding. So a lot of youngsters are coming out of photography degree courses. And they’ve learned to be creative, but they haven’t necessarily learned a lot of the sort of skills and the marketing skills. And so we’re having, I mean, I’m trying to be quite niche with looking at what people need. But I think some of the advice is going back to what Marcus was saying earlier, personal work, you’ve got to do personal work. You’ve got to scratch where it itches. You’ve got to sort of, I think that’s where you learn fastest. And I was doing some work a couple of days ago with one of my mentees. And just sitting back and letting him make the mistakes. Because we didn’t have a client with us. But just realizing that what I think is obvious, because I’ve done it for so long, isn’t obvious. But you learn by doing. You really do learn by doing. And you’ve just got to get out there and shoot, shoot, shoot. And learn by your mistakes. It’s the fastest way to learn, I think.
Marcus: I totally always agreed with that when I was lecturing. It’s all about making mistakes and also letting people make mistakes. And it’s quite difficult, isn’t it? Looking over somebody and saying, oh, you could have done that. Then you think, well, hold on a second.
This could take them into a new direction.
Mark: Yeah. And it’s about asking open questions to people, not dictating this is how you should do something, but asking questions that make people think. I’m really into sort of not telling people how to think, but helping people make their own mind up, basically. So you’re asking key questions. And because my way isn’t the right way, it’s the way I’ve learned.
Sometimes you can become quite closed in the way that you work. Actually hanging around with a few youngsters who maybe challenge you back is actually quite refreshing as well. I’ve quite enjoyed that. And they introduced me. I mean, for example, Joey Lawrence, the photographer I mentioned earlier, he was somebody that was introduced to me by a young guy I was working with. Blew my mind when I saw his work, you know. But that was a youngster that sort of introduced that photographer to me. So you’ve got to listen to people as well. You can’t be closed. I quite like that relationship of sharing ideas and growing together.
Sam: So mentorship, you think, is a good way to go find a mentor, find somebody who can help you, give you advice.
Mark: Absolutely, yeah. Because they’ve experienced a lot of the different facets of photography. Because photography is, there’s so much more to photography. You know, it’s a way of life, isn’t it? It’s not just a vocation, but not just a job. We learn so much in photography beyond just taking an image. We learn interpersonal skills, negotiating with clients, working with clients. I think my favorite type of work is where the sum of the component parts is greater when two people come together to create a project, you know.
And you created something that neither of you could have created on their own. I think that’s really exciting when you create something together. Yeah, I think over the years I’ve found photography is a privilege, really, to be part of this industry. I think that’s something I’d really like to impart to youngsters today. You know, it is a privilege. I always feel like it when you’re photographing a footwear catalog. I mean, some of the some of the shoots I’ve done over the years, you know, toilet catalogs. I’ve even done that. You know, you don’t think it’s very exciting when you’re doing that.
Marcus: Lots of puns we can say about that. I mean, there’s a film coming out, well, it would have been out by the time this comes out, about Lee Miller. I’m sure you’ve seen it.
Mark: I’ve been to see it already.
Marcus: Do you think now this is a very I’m use air quotes on this, but do you think it’s still cool to be a photographer, though, Mark?
Mark: Well, I’m not I’m not sure I can describe myself as cool. So I think, you know, you you fashion guys, you’re all cool. I’m not sure. I’m not sure I fall into that cool category.
Marcus: I think it used to be seen as cool, you know, documentary photographer, what you’re doing, reportage, war photography, fashion, maybe these days. I think it’s a very open, isn’t it? You know, it’s very open. I think still people think of it. Oh, it’s, you know, it’s a great thing to do. Obviously, by so many people won’t do it. But I don’t think it’s as cool as it used to be. I’m going to say that and I’m going to get criticized for saying.
Sam: Is it that, Marcus, or do you just think you’re not as cool as he used to be?
Marcus: Yeah, that. Mark, what’s the future for you? What’s coming up next?
Mark: Well, short term, I’m off to, as I said, I’m off to Peru next month to do some work with a charity, Edukid. And I’m actually trustee of Edukid as well. But the sort of, I think you call it the third act, do you? I’m sort of entering the final stage of my career. And that’s something that I am conscious of that I try and keep fit. But it is a young man’s game sometimes, photography. And I’m conscious that I will, I’m getting older. And lugging all that equipment around is not so much fun.
Marcus: You look great, by the way, Mark. I was going to say, you look great, but I was going to interject with that.
Mark: So with that in mind, I’m hoping that my mind will still be active, even if I don’t want to start lifting stuff. So the mentoring is something that I want to develop. I’m starting to really develop a program of creating visual storytellers. That’s what I really want to do for the next few years. And so mentoring could be, it could be practical. It could be just talking about lighting composition. It could be about really challenging young photographers to look at their story and developing a story and an idea. Because I just think photography is such a powerful medium to tell a story. And so that’s really what I want to spend the latter years of my career doing, really.
Sam: Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Mark, for taking the time to come and talk to us.
It’s been a really, really interesting show.
Mark: You’re welcome, guys.
Sam: Loads of amazing things for our listeners there.
And as usual, listeners, if you want the podcast to land in your inbox every week, and of course, why would you not? Then you need to subscribe to the Shoot to the Top newsletter. Nice and easy. Go to the website, shoottothetop.com, and you can sign up there. So make sure you do that. And then it arrives every week with all sorts of other stuff, too. Essential reading. So thank you, Mark and Marcus. I will see you next week.
Marcus: And yeah, see you next week, Sam.
Mark: Thanks, guys.
