You’ve done the hard part — worked the room, swapped business cards, had the good conversation. Tony Bowler, founder of The Business Culture in Hull and East Yorkshire, is back for part two of our networking series, covering how to actually work the room without getting stuck at the wrong table, and why the two days after the event decide whether any of it was worth it.
He breaks down the follow-up message that actually gets a reply versus the one that gets you quietly unconnected, why asking “what do you do” is the wrong question, and the slow-build sequence that turns a stranger with a business card into a genuine referral source.
There’s also a hard lesson in never judging a contact by their job title, and why the busiest-looking person in the room might be the one worth talking to. For any brand photographer building relationships in the local business community rather than just chasing bookings, this is the follow-through nobody teaches you.
00:02.68
Sam Hollis
Hello listeners and welcome to another episode of Commercial Photographer. This week we’re following on our discussion from a couple of weeks ago about networking. Only this time I’ve got an expert in the field in with us. So welcome to the show Tony Bowler from the Business Culture Hull and East Yorkshire.
00:22.74
Tony
Thank you very much for having me.
00:24.86
Sam Hollis
No problem. So Tony, we don’t need a huge introduction about the business culture, but can you give us an idea of what it is? Because ah is it I think it’s really a network at its core. Is that really right?
00:36.76
Tony
it It is, it’s a difficult one. we’ve had ah Our Achilles heel for the last 11 years, which is what we’ve been going now, is being called a networking group. um We class ourselves as a business club because there’s more than the networking that we do.
00:50.80
Sam Hollis
Yep.
00:50.87
Tony
And we do lots of different types of events that we do. Lots of types of about error so networking events. So when you say networking, people have ah an idea of a traditional networking where they meet once a week and that’s it.
01:02.64
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
01:03.59
Tony
where We’re nothing like that whatsoever.
01:05.05
Sam Hollis
No.
01:05.15
Tony
so
01:05.65
Sam Hollis
if I was meaning more a network rather than networking as kind of what the business culture is.
01:05.94
Tony
so Yeah, yes, yes, absolutely. We are a network, we are a support group, and we are a collaboration of businesses here in the North.
01:16.07
Sam Hollis
Perfect. Yeah. And then obviously with networking as part of it within that network, which is kind of what we’re going to talk about today.
01:21.62
Tony
Absolutely, yeah, yeah, area yeah.
01:22.65
Sam Hollis
Yeah. So you’re involved with networking, presumably as a facilitator, but also as somebody involved and wanting to get, you know, things out of it as well. Kind of you you see both sides, I presume.
01:35.03
Tony
Yeah, definitely facilitator. um With the membership that we have, our our our main role is to facilitate, put events on, put them together and ensure they get the best out of those.
01:46.11
Tony
And also re-education as well, because a lot of people come in with old fashioned ways of networking, shall we say, which by that mean the heavy salesy stuff, but that never actually works.
01:53.14
Sam Hollis
Right. Yep.
01:56.41
Sam Hollis
Right. Yes.
01:57.94
Tony
so So yes, to facilitate, but on the back of that, we obviously clearly
01:58.00
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
02:02.42
Tony
use that as a platform to promote ourselves clearly to bring on new members.
02:06.01
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Perfect. And then phi are you also as part of that helping those members in your group with their networking? So in some ways you you’re giving them guidance, you’re giving them help in terms of getting the most out of it.
02:18.49
Tony
Yeah, yeah. um it’s it’s It’s a strange thing in that when you’ve when you’ve been doing this for long time like we have, you see certain people do certain things, which is a very old-fashioned way of of working.
02:32.31
Tony
They might reach out their hand and in the hand is a business card.
02:32.45
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yeah.
02:35.02
Tony
It’s like, whoa, hang on, stop.
02:35.13
Sam Hollis
yeah
02:36.82
Tony
You know what mean? That’s not what you do. So we one of the things that we do do a lot of is is is is sort of educate and re-educate. And if I see things going on that I know is damaging, which it can damage their brand if they’re doing certain things that um is is not really connecting or building relationships, it’s just straight in with the sale, we do we do tend to pull them away and say, look, you know maybe do it this way.
03:03.59
Tony
Because we’ve become friends with all our members so we can have that relationship with them.
03:04.18
Sam Hollis
Okay. Yeah. Perfect. So you’ve talked a little bit about old fashioned networking there and that not working. So do you want to tell us then what new fashion networking is?
03:17.11
Tony
Well, it’s ah it’s it’s i know it’s an old cliche, but it is a relationship building.
03:21.81
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
03:22.26
Tony
We did a seminar not so long back. We did a networking event not so long back and I told people to follow up but don’t follow up with the sales. And typically people did.
03:31.45
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
03:33.75
Tony
And I needed to make them understand how it makes you the other person feel when they don’t really know them yet and they’ve got a sales email and they’ve got a sales message.
03:40.44
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
03:41.15
Tony
So that’s the old fashioned way. But I also appreciate that you’ve got You’ve got different people in the room and that’s the key part to all the networking is to understand who’s in the room.
03:50.24
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
03:52.09
Tony
If you’ve got the decision maker, you can talk at a certain level. And if you’ve got the sales and business development manager in the room, again, you’ve got to talk at a different level because one can make decisions, one cannot.
04:04.08
Tony
One’s there to get the business, one isn’t.
04:04.34
Sam Hollis
Right.
04:06.08
Tony
So that’s a massive part of networking is understanding who’s in that room and who you’re talking to.
04:06.63
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
04:12.66
Sam Hollis
Okay, excellent. and and And in some groups, you can pre-prepare for that and the whole other show is about that, can’t you? So some groups tell you who’s going to be there and you can kind of do your homework while others, you’ve got to kind of work it out in the moment, don’t you?
04:25.27
Tony
You do, but ah but I always ask, and if you don’t ask, you don’t get. So no matter what networking I’m going to, yes, we facilitate, but also we do a lot, and we go to a lot of networking events, and I always ask for the attendees list.
04:31.25
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
04:38.15
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
04:40.89
Tony
And it’s not GDPR, which they claim, because actually you’re just asking for their name, which is public anyhow, and it’s usually on the website. So I’ve always asked, and i and I’ve always got
04:49.15
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Oh, that’s interesting. so you take wow So you take the approach if you’re kind of going to a networking event, you’re a week out and they haven’t sent a list, you’re on what you just ask and say, can can you send it?
04:59.64
Tony
I just ask, I just say, look, we’re coming to the event on so and so, so, so, so please carry every 10D list.
05:04.79
Sam Hollis
Amazing.
05:05.75
Tony
And if I come back say it’s GDPR, go back and say, well, actually, I’m only looking for the name of business, which is public.
05:11.93
Sam Hollis
Yeah, you’re not asking for their phone number and the name of their wife and whatever else are they, what school their kids go to.
05:11.95
Tony
I’m not asking for, no.
05:15.63
Tony
I’m not asking for the email. I’m not asking for anything else. I’m just asking for things that public.
05:18.55
Sam Hollis
Yeah,
05:20.12
Tony
um And that is that is obviously clearly key um because when you go into that room, you need to know who you’re going to see.
05:20.56
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
05:27.43
Tony
Otherwise, as you know, when you get into a room full of people and you start a conversation off and you realise who they are, um it’s awkward then to pull away from that conversation to go to another conversation.
05:38.58
Tony
And again, that’s a skill in itself is learning to say thank you very much. It’s been great speaking to you. I’m not going to go speak to somebody else.
05:45.40
Sam Hollis
Yeah, i so that’s one of the ones I really struggle in the meetings, getting stuck with the you know interesting discussion to start with, but it’s kind of run its course, you need to move on. Do you have some kind of hints?
05:54.62
Tony
Yes.
05:55.74
Sam Hollis
and ti Because that’s really common, isn’t it, that I’m stuck here and I don’t know what to do.
05:57.50
Tony
I think you’ve just got to be honest. i mean i mean, all the people in that room are there for one reason, which is to connect and engage.
05:59.48
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
06:03.61
Tony
So what you find is that when you go into a room full of people, that they’re already within their surf bubble. I heard you mention the word tribe on your last podcast.
06:11.46
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
06:13.96
Tony
Absolutely. It’s just human nature to go into their tribe.
06:16.92
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
06:17.88
Tony
um but you’re there to network and you’ve got to realize that you get a network so yes when you go into a group but again that’s body language certain groups that closed off don’t even try and go in because they’ve closed the circle so you’ve got to understand the body language you’ve got to understand that if if they’ve left a gap in the in the little circle that’s a gap to come in and you and you walk in and you said hi my name is tony i just thought i’d introduce myself then the conversation starts
06:20.57
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
06:30.71
Sam Hollis
Right. Yeah.
06:38.36
Sam Hollis
Right.
06:43.22
Sam Hollis
Yep.
06:44.89
Tony
And then when you want to get away from that is the difficult part. But you’ve got to say, look, bye it’s been great speaking to you.
06:48.32
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yep.
06:50.41
Tony
I’m now going to go speak to somebody else. Thank you very much. And then you pull away. It’s hard and it sometimes can be embarrassing for some people, but you’ve got to do that to get to your next little pod of people.
07:01.91
Sam Hollis
Makes sense. Perfect. that’s interesting as well, you say that’s opening, because I find that’s, yeah, it’s interesting. Sometimes say you look around and there are closed groups, aren’t there? People who clearly know each other are used to it. And presumably also, though as networkers ourselves, we we have to try and keep make our effort to keep the groups open so people can come in.
07:19.03
Tony
and And that’s it. And a lot of people don’t realise what they’re doing, but it’s human nature. um And you do find that when there’s a close conversation, they know each other, they’ve closed that group off. you if you if you if you go say If you go into that it’s that that, that can be quite annoying for the group that obviously closed off the group.
07:37.40
Tony
But you’ve got to be conscious of your body language, the people around you, the eye contact and everything else. And then you’ve got to find your way around the room. But that’s why…
07:48.02
Tony
you You should have some kind of, not just the facilitators, but you should have some kind of ambassadors or key members of that particular thing that are there to to guide you around the room as well.
07:59.03
Sam Hollis
Yeah, so almost to pick up those people who are kind of stuck in between groups and can’t quite get into the next one.
08:05.05
Tony
Yeah, and you’ll see them because they’re either by themselves, they’re on the phone, you can sense they don’t feel comfortable in the room.
08:09.83
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
08:11.51
Tony
And as a facilitator, or we have ambassadors, we have like 10 ambassadors that are in the room with them, they’re picking up on that and then they’re saying, oh, how are getting on?
08:21.90
Tony
You why are here? Blah, blah, blah, can introduce you to somebody?
08:24.30
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
08:24.46
Tony
And then they’re moving them about, which helps the flow.
08:29.14
Sam Hollis
Yeah, perfect. And then some groups you get stuck, which is more difficult with tables, don’t you? So when you, when everyone’s milling, that’s great. But sometimes there’s a period on a table, isn’t it? And you can feel quite stuck then, can’t you?
08:39.94
Sam Hollis
But then it’s, you’re much more, it’s much more difficult.
08:42.14
Tony
it’s It’s a funny thing, but we realised that 11 years ago when we found first form, that if you have tables and chairs, they sit down and you’ve lost them. There’s no networking going on no more.
08:51.98
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yeah.
08:53.53
Tony
So we don’t have tables and chairs.
08:55.77
Sam Hollis
Amazing.
08:55.83
Tony
So we we make them stand up.
08:56.84
Sam Hollis
Yep.
08:58.33
Tony
um So in other words, we have them, i think they’re called Japanese tables where they’re quite tall and round, where you can put your drink on.
08:58.42
Sam Hollis
yep
09:03.00
Sam Hollis
Oh yeah, you can kind of lean on them, like in some bars and stuff.
09:05.66
Tony
Yeah, yeah. So we have them scattered about, but we we deliberately on ah on ah on a sort of event type thing, not a formal meeting one obviously, but in it but in ah in ah an informal gathering, we don’t have tables and chairs and we say, no, don’t put them out because they sit down and you can’t get rid of that.
09:07.83
Sam Hollis
Okay.
09:12.57
Sam Hollis
Yep.
09:19.51
Sam Hollis
Just for that purpose.
09:22.57
Tony
They’re stuck now. They’re there. And it’s difficult to get away and they are not networking either.
09:23.99
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
09:27.83
Sam Hollis
Yeah,
09:27.99
Tony
So, yeah.
09:29.20
Sam Hollis
It’s almost like at a wedding, isn’t it, when you get stuck with the awkward uncle and you just can’t get away?
09:31.32
Tony
It is, it is.
09:32.61
Sam Hollis
Same my idea.
09:33.51
Tony
That’s a nightmare, wedding wedding planning and who’s going to sit with who. I’d hate to do that job.
09:38.87
Sam Hollis
that’s it so if we’re going into a networking meeting what should we be thinking that we need to come out with it because it’s always good to go in with a plan isn’t it so what what is it that we’re thinking we need to go out of it because you’re saying it shouldn’t be a sale and and I agree with that I mean the odd time one will just randomly come up won’t it but you know that’s not the plan that’s not what you’re coming out for what is it that you are trying to come out for then
10:02.33
Tony
you’ve depends on what wording it’s all language if you’re going in there to make a referral in other words you’re looking for work that’s one thing you’re going in there with the heavy sales which i know i think never ever works unless you’ve caught somebody at that specific specific time that needs that particular thing which is very rare um i i like
10:19.64
Sam Hollis
No, that’s it. I mean, I had that the other day. I rarely go and sell, but somebody literally is going, oh, I’m really struggling with X, Y, Z. And then it’s like, you know, it just lands in your lap and it’s the right time.
10:29.88
Sam Hollis
But I wasn’t going in forcing that. But it does just happen, doesn’t it?
10:31.63
Tony
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:33.00
Sam Hollis
The odd time.
10:33.34
Tony
It is very rare. So me, I go in there to make a connection and the word connection is different to going in there for a referral. I’m going in i’m going into that meeting to see if there’s anybody that can help and support me.
10:41.11
Sam Hollis
Right.
10:45.38
Tony
And similarly, I’m going in there to help and support them.
10:45.82
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
10:48.70
Tony
So the the the language is different.
10:49.08
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
10:52.82
Tony
Hi, my name is Tony. What what what what is it you’re looking for and how can I help you? There’s a different language barrier now.
10:58.10
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
10:59.42
Tony
And then all of a sudden, because you’ve shown the interest and you’ve asked how you can help them, they’re more likely to open up and say, well, actually, do you know, I’m trying to find so-and-so, so-and-so, or I’m trying to do this, or I’m struggling with that.
11:10.81
Tony
And then the conversation flows more of a, relationship building matey type conversation than just straight forward with your sales pattern and your sales pitch.
11:21.52
Sam Hollis
Yeah, that makes sense. So it’s that kind of, hat yeah, that kind of help. um And if you’re talking about referrals, are you talking about asking people if they can connect to you, asking them if you can help them with referrals?
11:35.48
Sam Hollis
What do you mean by that?
11:36.47
Tony
It’s anything. we its we This is where you you asked about how how different or how modern um our networking is.
11:43.30
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
11:45.11
Tony
It’s because we we genuinely want to help and to support the people first before they look we’re looking at what we need. So it could be anything. it could And again, it depends on you’re talking to.
11:57.43
Tony
If you’re talking to whether the the sales and business development or you’re talking to the or you’re talking to the owners. But if you offer support and help, it genuinely looks like you you are willing to help. Therefore, it’s better than simply saying, who does your website?
12:14.94
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
12:15.01
Tony
Who does your mobiles? Are you looking for a new telecoms?
12:17.40
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
12:19.70
Tony
Then what you’re doing there is you’re putting you’re putting people on the spot because the answer is gonna be no.
12:25.08
Sam Hollis
Yeah. It’s almost like a cold call suddenly, isn’t it?
12:25.34
Tony
So it’s almost like, yeah, I do websites, do you want one?
12:29.62
Sam Hollis
Yeah, yeah.
12:29.72
Tony
oh No.
12:31.35
Sam Hollis
Yeah, yeah.
12:31.38
Tony
But if you say, actually, I build websites and I’m looking for people in this particular region, and if you’ve got any contacts that are looking for a website, would you mind putting my name forward? Then actually, you’ve taken that pressure off them asking the question, yes or no to a website.
12:45.18
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
12:47.79
Tony
there’s There’s a different language to use. And genuinely, if it’s support, you know, oh, but oh and um I’ve just got a new CRM or I’m looking for a new CRM and I’m not quite sure what I’m looking for, what do you use?
12:59.67
Tony
um Or is SEO dead these days? Is it going to AEO now? now once Once the questions start coming or what they’re struggling with or what they want answers to, you can then genuinely come back and talk to them about things and help them um and guide them as well.
13:15.94
Tony
um So that’s what I always do. I’m looking to help first.
13:19.69
Sam Hollis
Okay.
13:20.02
Tony
And you know what’s really weird? if you if When you first to meet somebody, they tend to always say, what do you do?
13:26.26
Sam Hollis
Yep.
13:27.32
Tony
Try changing that and say to them, why do you do what you do?
13:31.74
Sam Hollis
Okay.
13:31.99
Tony
All of a sudden, they’ve gone blank.
13:34.87
Sam Hollis
Right.
13:35.51
Tony
So what you’re trying to get into that is the emotional side of why they do what they do as opposed to what they do. It’s a different way of asking them.
13:42.71
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
13:42.78
Tony
And then they have to think of why they do what they do.
13:46.10
Sam Hollis
They can’t just reel off the patter.
13:46.36
Tony
and if it so yeah And if it’s just like, it just pays the bills, mate.
13:50.86
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
13:50.98
Tony
They’ve got no emotional attachment to that particular thing that they’re doing.
13:54.52
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
13:54.62
Tony
um So try that. It really is a powerful thing to say to them.
13:58.17
Sam Hollis
Oh, that’s interesting. Yeah. I remember a car leasing guy, what I’ve met ages ago networking and yeah, um you know, you only get down to real conversation with him. He’s like, don’t really care about cars. Yeah. Just pay the bills.
14:09.78
Tony
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:09.88
Sam Hollis
Really interesting.
14:10.71
Tony
So they’ve got no emotional emotional to that particular thing or product.
14:12.80
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
14:14.47
Tony
It’s just paying the bills.
14:15.93
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
14:15.99
Tony
um ah You know, whereas we we took a long time working out why. And we believe nobody should feel alone in business because it’s a lonely place. So that’s why we’re focused on more helping and supporting and guidance and pointing them than we are actually getting them to sign up to us.
14:32.63
Tony
Even if they’re not a member, doesn’t matter to us. I want to help you.
14:35.10
Sam Hollis
yeah
14:36.54
Tony
And that’s that’s the difference between the hard sell and trying to build a relationship.
14:36.70
Sam Hollis
yeah
14:42.10
Sam Hollis
Okay, that’s interesting. And then maybe we move on to so a lot of networking groups then kind of have the one to one that kind of, you know, whether it’s online or in person, you get kind of five minutes for the person or maybe even if you just kind of on the floor, you end up with that situation.
14:57.44
Sam Hollis
That’s then kind of a little bit different, isn’t it to that kind of more group chat couple of minutes? Have you got kind of thoughts about best ways to approach that and what you want out of those?
15:06.48
Tony
And again, when you call about networking, you said it earlier, there’s so many different different things that are associated with the word networking. You’ve got the open, the big ones. You’ve got the round tables. You’ve got the ones where you get 60, 90 seconds, whatever it might be. um Elevator a pitch, get the elevator pitch right and everything else.
15:22.51
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
15:23.54
Tony
You’ve got to get it to a point where um as soon as you’ve said what you’re going to say, they understand what you do.
15:30.38
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
15:31.02
Tony
There’s nothing where… And what the face-to-face does is when you’re explaining what you do, and they’re blank, you’ve not then you haven’t explained yourself very well.
15:37.78
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Then yeah. Yeah.
15:41.59
Tony
So then you go to the next one and you redo that or you retweak it. You’ve got to be able to tweak your elevator pitch or whatever you want to call it. You’ve got to be able to to change as you go along for the different person.
15:52.86
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
15:53.10
Tony
So getting that rapport, if you’re technical, clearly you are technical. That’s your job. If you meet someone like you, you can talk all day long technical. But as soon as you get that that rapport and within 10 seconds you realise they’re not as technical as you, you’ve got to adjust and adjust as you go down to make it simple, simple language, no jargonistic words, make it simple for them so that actually you’re on the same level.
16:01.87
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
16:08.98
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
16:17.46
Tony
So they they walk away saying, I know what you do. So it’s when you when you meet anybody, you’ve got to you’ve got to have something prepared, but also be um be able to adjust that on the fly as you’re going along to the person he’s speaking to.
16:20.87
Sam Hollis
Okay.
16:32.26
Tony
Don’t always have the same pitch, doesn’t matter, because it doesn’t it doesn’t match.
16:33.00
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Cool. And then obviously in terms of photographers, do you think there’s kind of specific things for photographers they can get from networking groups? Cause I, I think kind of as photographers, they’re very, some ways quite specially placed in terms of the locality in terms of things they can offer and things.
16:51.71
Sam Hollis
And do you have thoughts on kind of photographers in particular and what they can gain from networking that might be different from other people?
16:57.05
Tony
Well, I think with photography, it’s always the out the out the outcome, because clearly the outcome is what matters on photography and videography, all that kind of stuff.
16:57.69
Sam Hollis
or
17:05.26
Tony
So actually, getting we we have photographers at all of our events, and when you first start off, you’ve got to give them some kind of a brief, because if you don’t, they’ll go on their creative juice and they’ll do what they think is right.
17:19.51
Sam Hollis
Okay.
17:20.31
Tony
um So you have to give them some kind of brief as to what is you’re trying to capture. we we want We want energy, we want laughter, we want the room looking full.
17:27.35
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
17:31.86
Tony
So even if you’ve only got 20 people in a big room, get them together.
17:34.97
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
17:35.42
Tony
I don’t want to see one person stood by themselves on the phone, for instance. It might be a beautiful picture,
17:38.81
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
17:40.09
Tony
but it doesn’t represent the network that that we are.
17:42.07
Sam Hollis
yep
17:42.53
Tony
So you’ve got to give them some kind of brief, make sure that obviously clearly that you’ve got the room looking full, you’ve got happy, smiling people. And if there’s key people in the room, like you’ve got your sponsors or you’ve got your members, which might have a different badge on or something, make sure they know who they are because they’re the ones that are paying as well.
17:57.20
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
18:00.12
Sam Hollis
Okay. Yeah. And then what about photographers as networkers in terms of them being in the room, getting something out of it?
18:08.12
Tony
Well, it again, it depends on the on the um on how…
18:17.07
Tony
was going to say how how the organisers also promote them, because obviously clearly prior to, for us, for instance, we would promote them as well. So they’re always on the promotion list.
18:26.52
Sam Hollis
Right.
18:27.66
Tony
They’re always there on the website. You know who’s going to be in the room.
18:29.59
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
18:30.50
Tony
You know who the photographer is, because they’ve got a big bag of stuff and they’ve got probably a tripod and a big camera here.
18:30.90
Sam Hollis
Right.
18:35.70
Tony
So you know who they are.
18:35.74
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yes and no. So some network events, they’re not photographing, you know I mean? They’re just there as participants.
18:40.80
Tony
Oh, sorry.
18:40.89
Sam Hollis
Maybe they bring it as a prop, but.
18:41.30
Tony
Yeah, sorry. Yeah, sorry. In that instance, yeah, they’ve got to be the same as any other punter that’s in the room. They’ve got to understand networking.
18:47.92
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
18:49.91
Tony
They’ve got understand how they communicate. got to understand how they can pitch differently. You know, so if they’re just the same as any other punter in the room trying to appear, they’ve got to also, it’s usually, you can usually tell who people are within the room if you’ve been in networking for a long time.
19:08.19
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
19:08.66
Tony
um But they would be like anybody else. They they need that they need that pitch. And when I say a pitch, I don’t mean a sales pitch.
19:14.04
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
19:15.81
Tony
um They’ve all got to be very… We’ve got one photographer in Hull who’s very shy, um absolutely brilliant in terms of his photography.
19:23.26
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
19:27.35
Tony
But when you put him in a room as a punter, he just stands in the corner and looks his phone. Because he’s not comfortable. as and But putting him in front of the camera doing the stuff is brilliant.
19:34.52
Sam Hollis
yeah
19:37.30
Sam Hollis
yeah
19:37.53
Tony
He will go around, he’ll talk, he’ll smile, he’ll get the pictures, but you put him in a room as him promoting himself, he just stands in a corner and just doesn’t look at his phone. So we then have to get him to move around.
19:49.82
Sam Hollis
Okay.
19:50.04
Tony
um So they’ve got to they’ve got to have the same skills as everybody else in that room with communication, how to outook out go and talk to somebody, what to say, how to say it, when not to say So they need the same skills as everybody else.
20:04.95
Sam Hollis
Yeah, that’s interesting what you’re saying about somebody being shy when they’re not behind a camera. So it’s almost like taking that skills they’ve got behind the camera and where they’re already natural. So organizing people get it. And almost like I guess you could almost imagine the the the network group as a photo shoot. You know what? Except you’re not taking the photos, but you you you use those same skills, which you’ve got, but just got to transfer them.
20:24.54
Tony
Yeah, yeah, it’s amazing. He’s a really nice guy as well. The one I’m thinking of is really nice guy, brilliant being out the camera, really engaging. It’s like he just simply changes from giving a camera, unbelievable.
20:36.12
Tony
Say there’s a networking event, he’ll just not engage, he’ll know how to.
20:39.27
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yeah. And I don’t think that’s uncommon, isn’t i think quite a few people have that. um Cool. So we’re I think the whole other thing we need talk about is after the event, because we had a whole show about before the event. But also, it doesn’t end when you when everyone leaves, does it?
20:56.36
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
20:56.63
Tony
It doesn’t. And just because you’ve got a business card or something doesn’t mean you can sell. um And that’s the point. It’s just that it’s just an opportunity to to engage.
21:05.79
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
21:06.52
Tony
So you’ve got to follow up. Now the way that we always encourage people to follow up is it was great to see you at so and so, so and so event. It’ll be great to have a cup of tea and a chat to see if we can help and support each other.
21:19.26
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
21:19.61
Tony
The language is now different. you want you You want to help and support each other.
21:21.33
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
21:23.83
Tony
If you were just saying it was great to see you at networking event and you talked about your mobiles, can I give you a quote?
21:29.95
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
21:30.90
Tony
you’ve just killed the relationship dead because what they’re going to do is they’re going to just say well the probably won’t even reply to you and then they’re to unconnect from you and you won’t see them again so the follow-up is absolutely massive but you’ve got to do the follow-up right and you’ve got to do it within ah the first sort day two days of the event so that it’s clearly refreshing someone’s there but what you’re trying to get from that is you’re trying to get a meeting
21:49.61
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yep.
21:55.10
Tony
an informal chat meeting and genuinely when you go to any meeting, it’s listening. It’s listening.
22:00.89
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
22:01.50
Tony
I had one of your podcasts earlier where, and it’s it’s it’s a classic, if you’re talking to somebody, even ah even if it’s a one-to-one follow-up after to an event or during the event itself, and you can tell theyre not present.
22:14.62
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
22:14.72
Tony
It’s just, I’m i’m um’m too long in the tooth now. So when I know they’re glazed off her or they’re looking behind my shoulder or they’re picking up the phone,
22:22.04
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
22:24.60
Tony
i just I just say, look, obviously you are too busy. You’ve got other things on your mind. I’ll catch you later.
22:31.20
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
22:31.19
Tony
Now thats that might be quite rude, but they’ve been rude to me. They’re not giving me the time.
22:35.98
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
22:36.79
Tony
They’re not listening to me They’re looking over my shoulder. The phone’s more important. um And you can tell glanced over. They’re not listening to me.
22:43.70
Sam Hollis
yeah
22:43.80
Tony
So to me, you know, oh, I just stop and I look over my shoulder and make it like, make it obvious that haven’t seen him look over my shoulder.
22:53.82
Sam Hollis
Yeah. yeah
22:54.39
Tony
So you know that that is giving giving somebody the time and listening and asking questions makes, how is it going to make that person feel? It’s going to make that person feel valued.
23:05.69
Tony
And that’s what this all networking is about.
23:05.79
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
23:07.97
Tony
It’s making that person feel loved, to feel valued. And you’re asking questions. It’s the same with a business card. i I hate it when somebody, I don’t give anybody a business card until they ask for a business card because they’ve asked for it, so they’ve given me.
23:20.91
Sam Hollis
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
23:23.50
Tony
If they put it straight in their pocket, I want it back because everything of everything I’ve done in my brand, my life, my business is on that business card.
23:26.49
Sam Hollis
Right.
23:33.49
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
23:33.54
Tony
There’s been a lot of thought going into that business card. And if you just put it straight in your pocket,
23:36.32
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
23:38.62
Tony
it means nothing. So whenever I get a business card, I look at it, I feel it, I touch it, I turn it over, I ask questions about it.
23:43.74
Sam Hollis
Okay. Yeah.
23:46.65
Tony
I didn’t know you worked at, your office was in so-ands so and so, so and so street. I didn’t realise you did that as well, because on the business card might have other services that I’ve not talked about.
23:56.02
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
23:57.38
Tony
Again, um you’ve shown an interest in that person and in that business card. It’s a big, big, big thing. People from Japan and Hong Kong, we’ve got friend in Hong Kong that comes of it.
24:07.37
Sam Hollis
They have a whole ceremony.
24:07.64
Tony
And if you ask, they almost present it to you because it’s everything that there is on that business card.
24:08.43
Sam Hollis
Don’t they almost have the handing the business card? Yeah. yeah
24:15.10
Tony
So take the time to look, read, feel before you put it in your pocket. yeah um But yeah, the importance is the follow-up. Absolutely the follow-up.
24:25.62
Tony
um And never be Never assume you’re a website developer. I’ve got a website. I don’t need you. Right.
24:34.49
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
24:35.16
Tony
But I’m going to speak to you all day long because I want to get a relationship with you because I know for a fact you’ve got loads of businesses that you’re working on and that you know and also the connections that you know.
24:46.33
Tony
So I want to come to you and I want to genuinely listen to you.
24:47.13
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
24:50.99
Tony
I want to genuinely take an interest in what it is that you do. And and when we become friends, then the business just happens and the connections just happen. So always never judge anybody by what they do.
24:59.85
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
25:03.06
Tony
And that’s a massive thing that I always tell people.
25:03.58
Sam Hollis
yeah
25:05.10
Tony
You never know who that person is or who they know. just because they’ve got Just because I do websites and i I don’t want a website, always speak to them. Always speak to everybody.
25:13.34
Sam Hollis
So my only caveat there sometimes is, is it a proper business for them? You know, some networking groups, it’s a side hobby, it’s a hustle, they’re selling a few candles. And then I’m not so sure, I think as long as they’re, you know, as long as it is there, what they’re passionate about and is their business.
25:28.58
Sam Hollis
I think there’s some, maybe some examples where it’s just they, you know, they’re along for the ride.
25:32.44
Tony
That might be right, but I’ll give a classic example. We used to have, when we first set up 10 years ago, we used to set a building for our events, like our masterclass events and networking events and so on. And part of that term was I gave them the delegate list.
25:50.58
Tony
That was part of the payoff, the Contra deal.
25:50.87
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yeah.
25:53.11
Tony
And I saw the guy once and he’s putting a tick and a cross and a line and whatever.
25:57.50
Sam Hollis
Okay. So he’s like selecting who he’s going to talk to.
25:59.39
Tony
is selecting on the name that’s on the piece of paper.
26:00.44
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
26:02.17
Tony
And one lady was a flower arranger.
26:04.18
Sam Hollis
Right.
26:04.56
Tony
Let’s just call her Mandy.
26:04.82
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
26:05.32
Tony
I don’t know if I remember Mandy, flower arranger, put a line to her.
26:06.16
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
26:09.91
Tony
And I just says to him, why have you put a line through that person? Oh, well, she just has flowers. i don’t really want to speak to her.
26:15.83
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
26:16.06
Tony
And I said, yeah, actually like I get that. That’s her hobby. She doesn’t need to work because her her husband is the manager of MKM in Hull.
26:21.16
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
26:25.66
Sam Hollis
And then suddenly. Yeah.
26:26.71
Tony
And suddenly his face dropped.
26:26.94
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
26:28.71
Tony
That was one of his key clients that he needed to get in touch with.
26:29.11
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
26:31.90
Sam Hollis
yeah
26:31.96
Tony
So he dropped because she was a flower arranger as a hobbyist because she didn’t need to work.
26:34.46
Sam Hollis
yeah
26:37.32
Tony
And she obviously chose not to work.
26:39.26
Sam Hollis
yeah yeah
26:39.74
Tony
And yet her husband was the leader of MKM.
26:41.46
Sam Hollis
a
26:42.68
Tony
and it was just the penny dropped and after that he never judged the book by its cover if youre like you like he always spoke to everybody after that
26:47.61
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. And then also, I guess we’re running out of time a little bit. There’s the followup to the followup to the followup. it’s e It’s not just, is it, you know, it’s not just do the meeting, do the followup.
27:00.54
Tony
No, we, again, part of the seminar we did was how to break relationships and then how to build relationships.
27:01.03
Sam Hollis
I’m all done with my networking.
27:07.48
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
27:07.54
Tony
Now, if you will, you should be looking to build relationships. And there’s always this thing about seven points of contact and all that kind of stuff that people talk about.
27:16.37
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
27:17.50
Tony
But the first the first contact is, hi, it was great to see you at the event last last night. Let’s just keep in touch. Blank.
27:27.57
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yeah.
27:27.90
Tony
The next one might say, oh, by the way, I’ve seen this podcast that might interest you because you talked about this in when we met at the networking event. I thought I’d share it with you. Bang. Next one, a couple of months later. Oh, by the way, I feel a networking event coming up near you. Are you going to it?
27:43.45
Tony
bang. So what I’m saying there is that you’re not selling or you’re just giving them some bits of information and touching base with them. And then eventually, obviously that then becomes more relationship building.
27:55.18
Tony
Oh, by the way, Tony, nice to see you at so and so. What did you think of the football last night?
27:59.51
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
27:59.54
Tony
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
27:59.67
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
28:00.62
Tony
And then before you know it, you then got the relationship built. Then it’s all, by the way, Tony, I’ve got someone that might interest you on on your networking. Oh, by the way, I’ve got someone that might interest you. So all of a sudden you’ve built the relationship up, but you’ve you’ve got to do that in stages and you’ve got to build it up like that. You don’t just go straight for the jugular, otherwise they’re going to just disconnect from you.
28:20.36
Sam Hollis
Yeah, makes sense. I think that’s an amazing point to finish on that way. There is so, so much more we could say, but we are running out of time. So thank you so much ah for taking the time to be with us, for sharing all of this amazing information with our listeners um and listeners. I will see you next week.
28:39.82
Tony
No problem, thank you.
28:41.24
Sam Hollis
Thanks.
