“Show Notes”
This is Gillian’s second show with us. Gillian uses social media a lot as one of her marketing pillars. Today’s show is about the extra ways we can make money, the extra money we are leaving on the table while working with our clients.
Sam and Gillian discuss the fact that in many cases our clients want the extra services we offer, but simply don’t know we offer them. Offering these does not need to be salesy or pushy. It can just be letting our clients know these extra services exist.
Gillian shares some real examples with us.
1. Having a lower ticket offering
Gillian says we all should be offering premium luxury services. But there is always a space for a lower ticket offering. These will often be short photo shoots. Gillian says these are great for those who can’t afford your core offering. You don’t need to advertise this lower ticket offering. But you can personally offer it to some leads who clearly cannot afford or are not ready to go for your core offering. She says that nine times out of ten someone who turned down the higher ticket option goes for the lower ticket option. And in most cases, they also go on to become a customer of her other services. Gillian says she always makes it feel exclusive getting access to this lower ticket offering.
It’s important to ensure that you make it very clear what the lower ticket offer includes. And only provide that.
2. Add-ons and upgrades.
When someone has purchased a package with you is there anything else you can add on? Gillian says that when she was a newborn photographer she had a one- year photo shoot as an add-on for a newborn shoot. Wall art, books etc make great add-ons for a range of types of photography. You can ask about add-ons at the moment your new client comes on board or later on after the shoot. Explaining that “most other clients” go for an odd on makes clients much more interested in it. Never be afraid to ask if can I offer anything else.
Marcus asks about add-ons for branding. Gillian says she has sold wall art for an office, she has sold a branding book as an upgrade to branding clients. It could also be social media help or something a little different like this. Sam mentions that subscriptions leading to regular brand shoots are another way to upsell. Gillian says most of her subscription clients start on a standard brand shoot and then upgrade to regular brand shoots.
3. Expansion – Where can you expand your service offering
What services can you expand into as well as photography? This could be video clips, audio, gifs made from images, accountability services, or social media marketing. There are all sorts of areas that you could expand into. A lot of these expansion services often provide extra recurring income.
Having aspirational packages is also a good idea. 10% of customers will want to go for the top package you offer, so having a high-value aspirational package is a great idea and a small percentage of clients will go for it.
Sam says it’s important to be quiet once you have made an offer. It’s very easy to just talk, but once you have made an offer be quiet and wait for the client to speak. Along these lines, Gillian said it’s also important to be super aware of what you are saying to clients. We often say things like “this is too expensive” about one of your services.
Gillian is going to the Societies Convention that is on as this show goes live. Gillian is hosting the business school at this event and a talk on brand photography. Gillian has a five-day free mini-course coming up, which you can join. You can get hold of Gillian here.
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“Show Transcription”
Sam: Hi Marcus, how are you doing?
Marcus: I am very well, Sam, as you can see on the screen. I’m having a great time still in Mexico, so yeah, I’ll be back soon. But yeah, all good with me, thank you.
Sam: Amazing, it looks about 40 degrees warmer than it is here in the UK and it has literally not gone above zero today. I’ve been in the snow. Excellent, and today we have an amazing guest who is back, which is amazing friend of the show, Gillian Devine is back with us again. Hi Gillian.
Gillian: Hey Sam, hey Marcus, it’s wonderful to be back. Thank you for inviting me.
Sam: Thank you. And it’s been a little while since you’ve been on the show, so there might be quite a few listeners who haven’t. I’m sure lots of them have heard of you anyway, but there might be some who you don’t know. So do you want to introduce yourself, Gillian?
Gillian: Of course, yeah, it’s always lovely to make new friends. So my name is Gillian Devine. I’m a photographer of 20 years, worked in most of the different genres, started my journey in weddings, babies, families, a little bit of events, newborns, and now I am a brand photography specialist. And I’m also a trainer, mentor and business coach to other photographers.
Sam: Amazing. So yes, many of you, I’m sure, will have seen Gillian on social. If you get onto LinkedIn and you are a photographer, you’ll almost certainly have bumped into Gillian.
Marcus: Well, Gillian, you’re very prolific, not just on LinkedIn, I have to say you’re very prolific on many platforms. Well, certainly I see you on Facebook.
Gillian: I’m so grateful for you saying these things. That proves my marketing’s working then a little bit. Yeah, I love, I mean, I love social media. Social media is a great marketing pillar, isn’t it? I think Instagram, Facebook are probably my faves. I am getting more visible on LinkedIn, but yeah, they’re great, aren’t they? I mean, they’re free marketing, what’s not to like?
Sam: There we go. And today we’re going to talk about something a bit different though, aren’t we, Gillian? So we’ve kind of all been discussing this and we’re going to talk about kind of those extra ways you can make money in that way. Many of us leave money on the table that’s just there and we’re not just asking the right questions in some ways.
Gillian: Absolutely. The missing pieces, because we are running our photography businesses because we love the art, we love our photography, we love serving our clients and creating beautiful images, but we’re also in business to do business, to make money. And there are so many different ways, missing gaps and missing pieces that we can leave money on the table and we don’t want to be doing that. We want to serve our clients to the best of our ability, but we also want to serve our business and ourselves by looking at the income that we could maybe be boosting and growing from these different areas that we maybe are missing.
Sam:
That’s it. And I think some people feel worried about that. And I think in some ways often, it’s not that you’re making them spend more, it’s actually that they’re wanting more and they didn’t know that you offer it. And in some ways, you know, they’d be, you know, they’re biting in because you offer something extra, you go, yeah, I actually really want that. It’s not like you’re really having to wrestle them. I mean, sometimes maybe you are, but you don’t normally have to really wrestle with them. They just, they just want it and didn’t they, maybe they didn’t know it existed or didn’t know you offered it.
Gillian: Well, hopefully no one’s wrestling in their photography studio. But you are so right. You know, I was just talking to a mentee of mine, a brand new photographer I’m mentoring.
And a lot of us photographers, we are scared of coming across pushy, coming across as salesy. That’s not what we want. When if you just change that word sales to service in your mind, if you are a good heart centred person, you’re not generally a pushy person. There’s never in a million years, you’re going to come across as salesy and pushy because it’s not who you are at your core. But there are areas that you may be missing, serving your clients, leading them, guiding them, making suggestions, making other offers that they may or may not take up, take you up on, but there are there are gaps there in the service and then gaps where you can be plugging those gaps and serving them with different offers, different products and making more money into your business.
Marcus: And these tips that you’re going to be giving us, Julian, you’re obviously a branding photography specialist. They’re not just for branding photographers, aren’t they? They’re for photography, photographers in general.
Gillian: Absolutely universal, whether you’re weddings, babies, newborns, families, commercial events, whatever genre you are, if you’re serving clients, you can look at these areas and really think, well, what could I I’m going to be giving some some examples, to be honest, but what could I do in this occasion to add into the service of my clients and add into the incremental business? So, yeah, they’re universal across all the genres.
Marcus: OK, I’ve got my pen ready. Let’s go for it. I’m making notes here. I want more money.
Gillian: Let’s show us the money. Well, I mean, you know, my strapline is let’s be rich Tonks. So photographers that are rich in terms of happiness and confidence and fulfillment and impact we’re having with our photography, but also richness in terms of business and finance and income and money. So, yeah, let’s go. So shall I dive into a couple of.
Sam: Yeah, go on then. Let’s have some. Let’s have some real examples.
Gillian: Fantastic. OK, so for me, one of the areas that we could be capitalizing on making more money into our business is having a lower ticket offering. So I am definitely one to talk about offering premium luxury services. That’s what our photography services are. No matter where you are, what genre you’re in, having those core luxury premium services. But there is also a gap or a space to offer a lower ticket offering. Now, when you have a lower ticket offering, such as if you’re a brand photographer, that could be a virtual shoot or a mini shoot as a newborn photographer or a family photographer. Again, it could be a little mini shoot, so a little mini lower ticket offering. But what I mean by this is using this as a tool to mop up. I love that term. To mop up the clients that you maybe have been speaking to. They’ve inquired with you. They’re not in the right place or space to invest in your core services right now. So when that becomes obvious, you then will. I call it secret squirrel market. You will personally offer that to them. So for my lower ticket option, which is a virtual brand shoot or a mini brand shoot, you won’t find me publicizing that anywhere publicly. But I am using it so I don’t leave money on the table because if someone has inquired with me, they’re interested in my services, whether it’s a family shoot, a baby shoot, a commercial shoot, whatever it is. So they’re already interested. Once I’ve gone over my core offering, if that’s not right for them right now, I have a few clients that will say, well, it’s definitely something I want to do, Jill, but it’s just cash flows difficult right now. It’s probably something I’m going to love to do in six months time. Then to further the conversation and not leave money on the table, I will say, understand that completely. Not going anywhere. I’d love to work with you. So I definitely think that for me, it’d be three hour session. Brand session would be right for you. But just a thought, I do have mini shoot day coming up. This would give you a smaller bank of brand images, give you a really good taster of what it’s like to work with me and give you some great brand images to be starting to use in your marketing. How does that sound? It’s a budget friendly options, a bit friendlier on the pocket, on the wallet. How does that sound? And nine times out of 10, my inquiry that has said no to my core offering will then say yes to my lower ticket option. And then they’ll come on board my lower ticket option and I will then convert them to my higher ticket option and they’ll go back to wanting a three hour package. So instead of just letting the nose wander off, I’m serving the nose with another lower ticket option. I’m making money for my business. I’m serving them with something they need, they want and they desire. But then I’m keeping them in my world, looking after them and they will end up becoming a client of my core offering.
Sam: Perfect. And then you’re also kind of not cheapening your brand by kind of having that headline cheap offer on your website and your other marketing. It’s hidden away in its offering, but it’s not out there as what you’re talking about. You’re talking about your premium offering, which is giving you a very different look.
Gillian: Exactly, exactly. So don’t publicise the lower ticket offer. And I’ll even say things in the conversation such as you won’t see me advertise this. I don’t offer it to anyone. It’s not something I do all the time. And that’s genuine because I only do mini shoot days maybe once or twice a year. But I will always have those dates booked in my diary already. So when I have a conversation with someone that is a no, I will say, well, I’ve actually got a mini shoot day. The date’s already booked in. It’s this date. Would this suit you? You could do it the other way. If it suits you better for your business, you could say, well, I do have limited availability for a couple of mini shoots every month. I’ve got one more slot this month. And you can just choose when you do it. You don’t have to do it all on one day. You choose which suits best for your business.
Sam: Yeah. And then presumably with the mini shoots, what you do have to really care for these boundaries, because what some people find out you, I mean, some people great, like you say, we’ll do the mini shoot, we’ll move on. But some people who want the lower value will always push to get as much as they can. So you’ve got to be really careful on this is what’s included. It’s, I’m very strict on that.
Gillian: Absolutely. Yeah. It’s all spelled out from the beginning. How much time, how many images. So it’s a 15 minute shoot. It’s a 20 minute shoot. It’s 10 images. It’s 12 images. You can always, if you wish to, if you’ve ended up doing 20 images in your 15 minutes and never go over time, I always stick to the time. But if I’ve overshot, I will offer those to the client again, not leaving money on the table. And if they want to purchase more, they can purchase more.
Marcus: So I was going to ask about that. I was going to ask you about that. How would you, could you upscale it? And yeah, you just answered my question perfectly.
Gillian: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. If the customer wants to buy more, we’re not going to say no.
Sam: No. And then they’re feeling looked after because if you’re, as you know, advertising that you almost, you know, well, as I like you so much, I don’t let many people have this, but I’m letting you have that. And then, you know, you’re really bringing them in and they’re feeling really wanted, which is so powerful, isn’t it? They’re getting that emotional connection.
Marcus: You listen to YouTube marketing people. You’re just loving this, aren’t you?
Sam: It’s all about emotions, Marcus. It’s just all about the emotion. That’s it.
Gillian: We are fluffy marketeers. We love it.
Sam: That’s it. That’s the worst thing. When I do websites, I do quite a lot of website reviews for photographers. And then the worst thing I say is people, there’s a few things, but one of them is when people show their packages and say, my packages, you get 10 photos and you get this and you get that. I was like, no, what you get is, what do you get out of it? How’s your business going to be so much better after this? Not you get 10 photos and you get 2.5 hours and I’ll spend 3.6 minutes on Photoshop. Oh, for God’s sake, let’s not sell it.
Gillian: Exactly. Lead with the benefits.
Marcus: Okay. Sorry. Let’s have it. Hit me up with another one.
Gillian: I absolutely will. As long as we’re not wrestling, that’s fine.
Marcus: No wrestling.
Gillian: Okay. So another idea is add-ons and upgrades. So for me, for instance, an add-on, when someone has purchased a package from you, is there anything that you can put together as an add-on? For instance, I would always, when someone booked my newborn shoot, I would invite them to maybe upgrade or add on the year shoot. So they’re going to get not only a newborn shoot, but a three month shoot, a six month shoot and a one year birthday shoot. You can even look at add-ons, for instance, from a boudoir point of view.
If you’re a boudoir photographer, could the add-ons be makeup and hair, obviously before the session, but what about a facial and a massage after the session, making it really luxurious? What about those as add-ons? And then if you are someone that’s selling packages, so for instance, one of my family clients, my photographers that I work with, she’s a family photographer. She sells three different packages that include various digital images, wall art, et cetera. Don’t just stick to those packages. Offer add-ons. Maybe someone wants something for the grandparents, some extra wall art for different rooms, some extra books. So make sure you have the option for add-ons. Again, just not leaving money on the table.
And I think one of the things with add-ons and upgrades, make sure you’re looking at the whole customer journey and using the add-ons and upgrades. You can ask these at the beginning of the journey, when someone’s just booked you, you could actually say something like, brilliant, so excited to work with you. So thrilled you booked my X, Y, Z.
Just an idea, a lot of my clients choose to add on X, Y, Z. That would be X, Y, Z. Tell them a bit about the benefits. Would this be of value to you? So don’t be afraid to ask the question. Again, a lot of us hold ourselves back, don’t we? We don’t want to be salesy. We don’t want to be pushy. We are just serving. That’s all we do.
Sam: Just telling people what’s there. And again, and what you said there was really powerful, other people are doing it. And then they’ve got, oh, other people are doing this. Should I be doing this too?
Gillian: Social proofing. Absolutely. That could be at the beginning of the journey, but even through to the end of the journey, when you’re, for instance, in the sales room, you’re doing an in-person sales session. So they’ve seen their images. They love, they’ve made their choices. You’re filling out the sales form. Still be open to asking the question. Can I just ask, is there anything else I can help you with today? Can I make a few suggestions? Because I think there’s a couple of other things you might find really useful and valuable. So never be afraid to ask, is there anything else? Is there anything else?
Marcus: Gillian, obviously, can this apply to the branding space as well? Because I find it, I mean, you can’t, people don’t seem to want prints and things like that. How can you upscale in that branding sphere?
Gillian: So prints and wall art and books do come into play occasionally, depending on the client. So for instance, my estate agent client, I actually upsold her, upgraded her to include wall art for her office. One of my clients is a mindset coach. I upgraded her to a brand book, which is full of her brand images, but also full of motivational messages, motivational quotes, her brand values and milestones in her life that have meant a lot to her journey. So it very much depends on the client. But with brand photography, the other aspect of upgrades and add-ons is things like social media help, a social media guide, a level of, for instance, I add on to my brand photography packages, a 30 day social media planner, where I pick 30 of their images, and I actually give them written content prompts against all 30 images. So they’ve got 30 days worth of social media prompts together with suggestions of what image to use alongside those prompts.
Sam: Yeah, that’s great. Yeah. I mean, Marcus, you saying, don’t you, you often will give people, yeah, little animations and all sorts of things as well, don’t you? Which, yes, which you can do as part of that. And presumably the other thing is what a lot of brand photographers do is try and do the subscription. So you could try and move them from the one shoot to you’ve got these, and we’ve done the best we can, but it is summer and it is hot, you know, that’s going to look a bit odd in the cold. It’d be really great if we met again in December, or we can go out in the frost and do some pictures and they’ll look much better.
Gillian: Absolutely.
Marcus: Another thing that you can, I could offer as well, which is adding value is offering a subscription, you said Sam, offering a subscription or spreading the payments out, I can say more likely, you know, in over three periods or something like that. And that’s another way you can really add value as well. Maybe that doesn’t make you more money, but it makes clients more liable to come to you.
Gillian: Absolutely. I think the year I sell a lot of my year-long package, generally my clients will book me for one shoot, and then they’ll upgrade to a year-long package where they spread their payments, they get four shoots over a year. Now that can be, you could do that in boudoir if they want four little mini boudoir shoots, you could do that with families or babies. So absolutely, I think that’s a great thing to do to help someone use you more and gain from your services.
Sam: Cool. And then you said, kind of, you can ask people is there anything else you want? I’m presuming it was, you can do that. I’m presuming it’s better if you have some ideas, because in some ways they don’t always know what they want, do they? Or know what you offer. Well, if you’ve got, you know, I’ve got these ideas that presumably is going to go down a lot better than anything else. And they’re just going to, well, if you go, what about this? And they go, oh.
Gillian: Definitely. And you know, again, it depends on your genre for the weddings. I used to always encourage people to buy little books for the grandparents or the bridesmaids or the groomsmen to buy extra wall art for different rooms to buy a memory book, that’s a little thing that you can have in your handbag as well as the big book. So there’s always room for little extra services with brands. You know, you can encourage people to use your support from a marketing as well as a brand strategy point of view. I know one of the photographers I mentor, we’ve now put together an accountability package. So as well as her client booking her for a brand shoot, she will help them over two or three months be accountable to actually using the images for her marketing. Because a lot of brand photography clients, they’ll get this fabulous bundle of brand images. And they’ll think, oh, how do I use them now? So that is something else I can serve my clients with and gain extra income from.
Sam: Amazing. Right, Gillian, do you have more for us?
Gillian: So again, this is along the lines more of expansion, to be honest. So thinking about where you can expand your service offering to serve extra to make more money into your business. And this is, Marcus, you’ve just touched on it, animation, video, for instance, as I’ve done this as a brand photographer, as a family photographer, as a wedding photographer, I’ve captured small video clips, as well as small audio clips to add into the bank of content that I give to my clients. I remember in my family shoots, as well as taking gorgeous images of the kids, I’d do short video clips of them tickling each other, laughing together, chasing each other. And then I would put that together in a slideshow. And that would many times, you know, bring the parents to tears. So it’s just what extra services, where can you expand your services? We talked about brand with accountability services. There’s even a lot of the photographers, the brand photographers that I mentor, they’ve been very established as brand photographers, and they’re now expanding their services to an area that they find very joyful and very interesting, human design. One of the brand photographers that I’ve mentored is now moving into human design. She studied it, she’s got her qualifications, so she can help her business owner clients in that way. Another photographer that I mentor, she is offering not only brand shoots, but she’s offering to do people’s social media for them. So her clients, she’s got the local butcher, she’s got the local accountant, they’re not necessarily marketing people themselves. So not only will she do the shoot for them, she’ll do their social media for them.
Sam: So it’s thinking about regular income as well, because a lot of photographers, the income is it’s a shoot, and then you’re done and you’re looking for more clients for that brings in that regular income, which is so in a photography business is just so good to get, because it can be hard if you’re just constantly churning through shoots.
Gillian: Absolutely.
Marcus: And as Gillian was saying, you know, these are just ways of making extra money.
They’re also really enjoyable to do. They’re very creative, create making videos from stills, creating gifs, it’s all part of your creative process. And I find them, I find it really good fun.
Gillian: Absolutely, completely agree. And there is, there’s also the level of expansion, where it also comes into play with looking about inspirational and aspirational packages. So not also expanding your services, also expanding your clients eyes, opening your clients eyes to a really aspirational package. I think that is also a way to not leave money on the table, because you will always have a certain amount of clients, I think let’s say it’s 10%. But when they look at your offerings, even your top offering, they would probably buy more. So having that aspirational package that whether you publicize it, or whether you secret squirrel market. So for instance, as a brand photographer, my 5k package includes a couple of nights over staying over with me at my Spanish villa, a couple of evenings out as well as a brand shoes. As a as a boudoir photographer, it could be a trip to Paris and in a beautiful French Chateau where you have your boudoir shoes, it could be a stylist, it could be makeup, makeup by a celebrity makeup artist. So really thinking about expansion in terms of what is the aspirational package we could put together for that percentage of clients.
Sam: Perfect. And then just one thing I was thinking about, because you’re saying you can ask them a lot of things. So you can say, you know, what, have you thought about this? Would you like that?
Gillian: Yeah.
Sam: And I think something I learned a while ago, which I think it’s been really powerful is once you’ve offered somebody something, shut up. And don’t speak until they do.
Gillian: Absolutely. I love that. That’s all the psychology part, isn’t it? Let people have that space to think about it. Yeah, absorb it. Don’t talk at them, make the offer, be that person of service, and then let them think.
Sam: Absolutely because it’s so easy, isn’t it, to go, yes, and then they’ve not responded in half a second. So you’re saying, oh, but there could be, and then you’re off. Well, if you just go, we’ve got that offering. What do you think of that? And then you have to, like, stop yourself. You just sit and wait.
Gillian: Exactly. I love that. I absolutely love that. So right. So right.
Sam: Cool. Right. Well, we are getting towards the end of the show, but we do have I’ve got some quick fire questions, Gillian. So these are, I’m trying to do the more quick, Marcus’s version of quick fire as it takes half the show.
Gillian: Before we go into the quick dad questions, I’ve actually just thought of something else.
Sam: Go on then. We’ll let you on.
Gillian: Definitely a thing that fits into the mold of not, not leaving money on the table, not shitting your business in the foot. And that’s being very self-aware, just as you’ve just said, Sam, not just talking to people to fill the silence, being very self-aware about what you’re saying and how you’re saying, saying it. One of the photographers I mentor, she’s just been very honest to me. We’re right at the beginning of the journey, starting to work together. And she’s just, she’s just been super honest with me. She was talking me through her client journey, how she shows her clients, the wall art that’s available, et cetera. And she actually says to her clients off from the first, first offing, this is excellent. It’s beautiful, but it is very expensive. You probably won’t want that.
Sam: Yes. In fact, I was just, that was just the wording of what I was going to come back, whatever you said, say, and people put their own thing down that you won’t be able to afford. Yes. There’s no point is that? No, they might be. And it might be in their head.
Gillian: So it’s doing the work, isn’t it? To be really self-aware about the language, the words you’re using. There’s nothing wrong with saying this is a beautiful wall art. It’s very premium. It’s very luxury, but don’t tell people it’s too expensive because it might not be expensive.
Sam: And we will all make those mistakes. And I think the key is, isn’t it being aware and remembering, noticing the first time and then right next time, I’m really going to try at this point.
Marcus: Yeah, you take practice, isn’t it, Sam?
Sam: That’s it. Don’t knock yourself down if you do, because we all, we all do that sort of thing. And it’s just being aware and right next time, I’m really going to, don’t kick yourself about it, but try and improve it.
Gillian: Absolutely. Every day’s a school day. We’re all making mistakes every day, but we learn from it.
Sam: It’s great. Some of us more than others, I feel with me.
Marcus: OK, question.
Sam: Right. Quick fire questions. Are you ready? Right. So we’ve got some serious and some more silly. So here we go. Right. Some of them, I think I know the answer to these already, but we’ll see. Gin or beer?
Gillian: Gin.
Sam: Gin. That was my guess. Beach or snow?
Gillian: Beach. You’re winding me up, of course.
Sam: Fewer larger clients or more small clients?
Gillian: More small clients. I like small clients. One on one.
Sam: Dogs or cats?
Gillian: Dogs.
Sam: Dogs. Perfect answer. Digital or analogue?
Gillian: Digital.
Sam:You know. Like a notebook or a nice paper notebook or a digital note?
Gillian: Digital because you can do more with it.
Sam: Digital.
Gillian: Yeah.
Sam: Yeah. Excellent. I know the answer to this one from experience. Voice notes or text message?
Gillian: Voice notes, obviously. You can’t sing to someone on a text message.
Sam: I know your shirt is giving this one away. Stripes or spots?
Gillian: Stripes. Always.
Sam:
Right. Tea or coffee?
Gillian: Coffee.
Sam:
Right. OK. Final one, which I’m going to torture on this one. You have to give me a one or other on this one. OK, Gillian. OK. Email marketing or social media marketing?
Gillian: Email.
Sam: Excellent. OK.
Marcus: You love, Sam loves the email marketing, that’s for sure.
Gillian: I do a lot.
Sam: Excellent. Perfect. That has been amazing. Thank you so much for being back with us, Gillian. And I’m sure we will, if we are lucky enough, we will speak to you again. And you’re off to the, you’re off to an event shortly. What do you want to tell us very briefly about that?
Gillian: I am. I’m going to the Societies Convention. It’s that time of year. So, yeah, I’m off to the Societies Convention. And I’m also…
Sam:
Sorry, just to say, so that will be going on while this show goes out.
Gillian: Oh, fantastic. Well, hopefully I’ll get to see lots of my lovely photographer friends there. And then I’ve also got one of my five day free mini courses coming up.
Marcus: Ah, yes.
Sam: So we’ll put details of that in the show notes so everyone can book on. Sorry to interrupt while you’re describing it.
Gillian:
That’s all right. No, perfect. Thank you very much. I run it three times a year. So there’s always one coming up so you can get on team.
Marcus: And the convention, Gillian, what would you be talking about there?
Gillian: Oh, I’m hosting the Business School, which is a full day of business and marketing educators. So six educators in total, full day dedicated to all of your marketing and business strategies. And then I’m also doing on brand photography.
Sam:
Oh, cool. Sounds amazing. And that’s London. Whereabouts in London?
Gillian:
It’s in Hammersmith, the Novotel Hotel in Hammersmith.
Sam:
Perfect. Excellent. I will put links to that in the show notes too.
But yes, thank you so much. Lots and lots and lots to learn from today’s show. Thank you for being with us again, Gillian.
Gillian: Thank you. Really love being with you guys. We always have good fun and cover lots and lots of fabulous topics. So thank you, Marcus and thank you, Sam.
Marcus: Thank you.
Sam: Thank you, Gillian. And I’ll see you next week, Marcus.
Marcus: See you next week, Sam. Take care.
