“Show Notes”
Stefanie has been a professional photographers for twenty years in the St.Albans area. Her focus is now 100% on commercial photography.
Stefanie says it’s important to think about what motivates people to get photos. What are the triggers that make people want a photograph? This could be an event for a family, it could be being asked for a headshot as a business leader.
Stefanie says it’s very important to make it very easy for people to work with you. For example if someone wants a corporate headshot she already has a blog ready that answers many of the questions they might ask about headshots.
A few weeks ago Stefanie was working with a school on their marketing. She said the women at the school was convinced that she only did school photography as she had such a great landing page for school photography. Having specialised landing pages for areas you work in makes life simple for the lead which helps to convert them. Stefanie also ensures she responds to lead very quickly.
Stefanie also wants to engage the local community as she wants to work locally. For example last year she went on a local Mum’s Facebook group and said she wanted to help those with a LinkedIn profile photo that they were embarrassed about. She offered a free headshot for three people who were happy with their before and after shots being shared publicly. She got a lot of queries and then worked out who she wanted to work with using various criteria, including making sure they were very different. So the posts on the Facebook group created abuzz. She then started sharing what she did on LinkedIn. She did some posts asking people to help people choose their new headshot and gave a few options. This got lots of engagement as so many people saw the post and so many people were willing to chip and and comment on which headshot should be used. This process has also been working on the triggers helping people realise they do need a headshot.
Corporate photography UK is a Facebook group that Stephanie helps to run along with Martin Hobby (see our show with Martin here). Elise Marks setup the group. The group is about supporting each other and is Uk based. The group is also used for referrals, so for example if Stefanie does a photoshoot in London and the same company needs a photoshoot in Manchester, she would use the group to find someone to refer that work to. Stefanie says it’s vital that your website is excellent as it needs to appeal to photographers looking to refer work. Also she says she won’t refer work to photographers who don’t have a good website, even if she knows they are excellent, as she wants to ensure the person she is referring gets the right impression.
Sam asks Stefanie how being close to London effects her work. She is about 20 miles outside London. Stefanie says she aims to get work in her local area not in London. There are some big business parks containing large national companies in her area.
Marcus asks about Stefanie’s use of artificial light. She says she uses artificial light nearly all the time. As she is a portrait photographer then light on the face needs to be right and an artificial light is essential for this.
Stefanie’s advice for anyone moving to corporate photography is first of all to learn off camera flash. Understanding and creating light is a big differentiator between professional photographers and those shooting on phones. This skills means that during the day you may need to change your setup as the sun moves and comes in and out of clouds.
Marcus asks about dealing with people and getting them comfortable. Stefanie says you need to work with your own personality or it won’t work. Stefanie says she is quiet, calm person. So she doesn’t work in a high energy way, which others might if this is their personality. It is important to also understand where the person is coming from who is having their photograph taking and having empathy with them. This is related to our past show on listening.
“Show Transcription”
Marcus: Hello there, Sam, how are you doing?
Sam: Very good, Marcus. And how about you?
Marcus: Yeah, very well. Thank you. Enjoying the summer. Always good with me. Thank you. We’ve got a guest on today, Sam.
Sam: We have. And is this also our first video, or is this going to be a video podcast as well, Marcus? Very exciting.
Marcus: We’re going to go for it. Wash my air, brush my teeth. I’m all ready. I don’t know about you.
Sam: I’m from Robal Studio, which you can see, but who’s with us anyway, Marcus? That’s the important thing.
Marcus: Anyway, we’ve got… Okay. Yeah, well, thank you. We’ve got Stephanie Belton from with us today. Stephanie, tell us about who you are, where you are, anything else?
Stephanie: Hi, Marcus. Hi, Sam. Really excited to be on the show. So I’m Stephanie Belton. I’m based in St. Albans, in Hertfordshire. So as you may hear from my accent, I’m originally from France in Avignon, sunny very hot Avignon. But I’ve been living here for 30 years. I’ve been a professional photographer for nearly 20 years, coming up to my 20th year now. And I specialize in corporate photography. So I started more families working around St. Albans here and kind of evolved over time. I think as I got a bit older, kind of changed my shift a little bit. And now I’m doing 100% corporate, especially since COVID, 100% corporate photography, working locally with local businesses. People come to me for headshots as well. And my home studio.
Sam: Excellent. Sounds interesting. So, yeah, I’m excited. A gradual move over. And so I think I’m going to go straight in with clients and how you attract them. Talking before the show, it sounds like you’ve got some interesting things that you do to create excitement to get clients in.
Stephanie: Well, this is it. I think it’s trying to understand what motivates people to get photos. So definitely when I was doing family photography is thinking what would be the triggers. So triggers would be, for example, grandparents having a big wedding anniversary and they really want photos. They’ve been asking for years of photos with the whole family or the kids. So this is thinking about that angle. So often I would ask clients what made you book the session and then maybe creating a little blog around that or social media posts.
Because even for headshots, sometimes it’s something that is on your to-do list and never goes up the priority enough. So thinking about maybe somebody’s asked you, like you’ve asked me for a headshot for the podcast. And then it’s not nice when you have to do it at the last minute and send a selfie and it doesn’t make you look that professional. So thinking ahead about what you might need headshots for.
Sam: That’s interesting. Because nobody on the… We’ve talked on the podcast before about people coming to your website because they suddenly realise they need something. But what we hadn’t gone is got that step back, which you have, and thought is what has been that trigger? That’s a really interesting thought and approach.
Marcus: And you were to me as well, trigger. I love it.
Stephanie: I think you may have found yourself, Marcus, is that photography is a lot of psychology. It’s not just running a business in general, I suppose. Obviously there’s a technical side or artistic side, but a lot of it is to run a successful business is just understanding your clients and what motivates them and why they need you. So a lot of it for me is how do I make it easy for people to work with me? How do I streamline the process? How do I send my calendar, maybe have blog posts ready with what to wear so that they feel that they’re in good hands? So if I get an inquiry for company headshots, I’ve already got a blog ready with all the questions people might wonder. Usually it would be like somebody in the marketing department or HR or office admin who’s been tasked with organizing stuff headshots, and it’s a bit of a pain for them. But if I can make it super easy, so you need this, this, this, and this is my calendar. And I can also give you an Excel spreadsheet where you can book people or people can book themselves on Google Drive. Anything I can do to take the pain away is the kind of thing, understanding where they’re coming from, their point of view, seeing myself in their shoes. It’s a big one.
Marcus: Yeah. I mean, that’s really self-evident on your website. When I look through there, it’s very easy to navigate. You’ve got your prices on there so people know exactly what they’re going to be paying. And as you say, yeah, you can book onto it very easily. The work is very clear. You certainly take that philosophy and follow it through the rest of your business.
Stephanie: Well, this is it. I think for, so I was doing a school marketing photography a couple of weeks ago and the lady who booked me, the marketing lady, we had a chat and she was convinced that all I did was school photography. And that’s kind of why she booked me. And because I had a landing page, you know, when you look for school marketing photos, I had a landing page with just school photos. And in that page, there’s testimonials, there’s my prices. There’s examples of my work. There’s a contact form. So you don’t need to go anywhere else. I think often, you know, photographers wonder if I cover different genres. Do I need different websites? Which can sometimes it’s advisable. But sometimes it just really multiplies the work. If you can, you know, design the website in a way that, you know, people can land on the page where they need to have all the information they need, less chances of losing them by them having to navigate everywhere.
Sam: Having those separate pages is brilliant. Is it because I know a lot of photographers I was talking with the other day, like, where do you send people? Oh, to my home page.
But yeah, if you’ve got that’s not always great. If you’re doing different sorts of photographers, like you say, having the page for schools, having the page for corporate headshots, having all the pages so people go right to it. And then that page is very niche, isn’t it? Like you said, it looks like that’s pretty much all you do because you’re just talking about that one type of thing.
Stephanie: That’s it. I mean, the more hurdles you give to your clients and the less chance of getting the booking. So I get an inquiry and this is my top priority, almost like a game of tennis. I get an inquiry, I try to reply as quickly as possible as well. And it’s just kind of, it means that you get that reassurance and that people feel, you know, they can trust you and you know what you’re talking about. But I think coming back to what you were asking me before about finding clients, it’s also finding ways to engage a local community. So I’m not, I don’t want to be, I’m kind of done 50. I don’t want to be lugging all my equipment all around the country. And I know there’s a lot of 50 plus year old who are very happy to travel around. I just don’t have that kind of energy. So I love working locally. I love working with people who know me, maybe who have heard of me. And so therefore I’ve kind of done a lot of things to try and engage my local community, think about maybe charities, local charities that people like to get involved with or just, you know, different types of clients that I could work with and create a bit of a buzz. So one thing I did last year that kind of got a lot of engagement was, again, thinking about triggers or creating those triggers. I went on the local Facebook group, St. Albans Mums, so it’s like a very popular group here in St. Albans. You get all the, all the intel and the recommendations. Very, very good for that, Mums. And I said, I wanted to create, so if everybody had a really bad LinkedIn profile photo that they were just a little bit embarrassed about, and that’s been on their to-do list maybe for a while, haven’t got around to it. I said, if you’ve got a really bad LinkedIn profile, I’m looking for three people who would be happy to come and exchange for a free headshot, be comfortable with me sharing a before and after. So I did that as I was kind of a little bit inundated with responses. But what I did, I made sure that the ones I picked had, you know, either selfies or taking photos that I could really show a big different. Also, even if it’s a bad professional photo, I don’t want to embarrass the other photographer by saying, oh, I’m so much better. So I wanted to make sure that we’re kind of homemade, homemade photos, or maybe cropped from a wedding picture or something. And then I made sure also that I chose people who, you know, really different backgrounds, different reasons why they were on LinkedIn, maybe looking for a job, or maybe a student looking for a work placement or somebody, I don’t know, it was a fitness instructor, couldn’t really, you know, pay a lot of money for a headshot, you know, just different stories like that. And I got them, you know, I can do headshots in about 15 minutes and create actually quite a nice little variety of photos. So already that kind of created a buzz. Then I posted on LinkedIn and explained the concept and showed all the befores, and people started to get a bit excited about seeing the afters. And then every day for a week, I ended up with six people. I posted the before with three potential afters. And so I think people love giving their opinions on things, especially if it’s really easy, especially if it’s not particularly controversial. So I said, you know, can you help Sophie decide on what should be her new headshot? This is her before, and this is what she does, and this is how she wants to come across. And so I think for every post I did, I got at least a thousand reach, which was great. And then that kind of snowballed into actual paying work. So I just love anything that can be a win-win or even a win-win-win. I did another one, which was student headshots.
Sam: But if you hang on a minute, because there’s so much to unpack. The whole concept is amazing. So yeah, because we’ve talked quite a bit, I mean, Marcus, with guests about this idea of free work and when to do it and when not to do it. And we’ve often kind of come across a few things, and you’ve kind of nailed all of them on the head. So you said it was free, but it’s only three people, and then you’ve got as many people as you could, and then you write which of the, instead of going, oh, the first three, you’ve gone, which are the right ones, which will get me the maximum engagement, the maximum interest, the most variety. So really planned it carefully. And also, you’re talking about the triggers before. You’ve gone back, haven’t you, to those triggers, and you’ve pushed them. So they’ve got those triggers in the back of the mind going, yeah, one day I need to get a headshot. And you’ve fired that trigger, haven’t you? You’ve made them think, oh, bugger, yeah, actually, I need to do this now. And then taking it on with those questions on LinkedIn, you ask somebody questions on LinkedIn. It just goes crazy, doesn’t it? I was going to change accounting systems one time. I was like, okay, accountant should I be using zero or whatever else it was? Oh my god, you get a thousand accountants then. So yeah, and when it’s photographs like that, everybody thinks they’re an expert, don’t they? Everybody is more than happy to chip in, and they love it.
Stephanie: Yes, yes. I mean, because I think what I loved about this is that it did create engagement, but on something that was very relevant to my work, 100% showcasing my work rather than a random question.
Sam: It wasn’t noise for the sake of noise.
Stephanie: Exactly, exactly.
Marcus: Stephanie, so just to come in there, you’re also part of a community, a Facebook group, Corporate Photography UK, I believe that’s their name.
Stephanie: That’s it, yes.
Marcus: We’ve had Martin Hobbie, I believe he’s one of your co-hosts or whatever, he’d been on the show. So I listened and go back to that. So I’ve noticed, I follow the group, it’s a great group, very, very active, and I’ve noticed a lot of work these days, and I know I spoke to you about this before, seems to be quite London-centric, being a capital, a lot of work around there at the moment. Tell me about your location and how you think your location may benefit.
Sam: Could I just do a quick, before we answer that, just can we expect, do a quick 20 seconds, what is that group just for listeners? Is that a Facebook group?
Stephanie: Yeah. So first of all, I just wanted to give a shout out to Elise Marks. So Elise is the one who created the group, and she’s absolutely amazing. And she set the tone for, it’s all about supporting each other, kindness, there’s no unsolicited critique, no, you know, no, oh, you’re rubbish or whatever, you shouldn’t do this like this. And so it’s very, the tone of the group is really, really positive, and I think that’s a big part of its success. So it is, I would say it’s very, it’s totally UK-based, but obviously there are more photographers, you know, around London, the home county. So there are, so what I’ve done in the past, for example, I am based near London, but if my client also has offices in Manchester or Glasgow, this is where I’ll be looking for to refer somebody who’s not, you know, who’s kind of in that area. And Martin is not in London, he’s, you know, up in Cheshire, probably the best photographers in Cheshire. And yeah, so, you know, yeah, there are more, a lot of it is, for referrals, is London, but some isn’t. And some, you know, I know, for example, I do photography, not videography, so I would, you know, if I needed to work with a videographer, this is where I would be the best place to ask. But so, yeah, so people looking for referrals there, I would say really important, again, to have a website that can showcase what you do. So it’s not just clients who don’t want to be hunting around for the information. It’s also other photographers who might refer you. I’m not going to send, you know, a link to a client saying, you should use so-and-so if their website isn’t showcasing their best work. And sometimes it’s heartbreaking because I know this photographer or videographer is really good, but it’s not showing in their website. And, you know, and it’s a bit of a shame, yeah.
Sam: And then, so on the location question, how much, so you also, people who don’t know St. Albans, who watch 20, 30 miles outside the central London sort of thing?
Stephanie: So, yeah, I mean, I’ve got a direct line into King’s Cross, takes 20 minutes from St. Albans city station.
Sam: Yeah.
Stephanie: So it’s pretty…
Sam: It’s pretty convenient. So how does that affect your work in terms of do you think pricing, is it different because of where you are? How do you get different work if you’re in London, so you’re out of it?
Stephanie: Okay. So what happens, I think, especially since COVID, so many people are working hybrid. I try not to push a London thing. I try not to… I’m not trying to rank for London work. I’m trying to rank for Hertfordshire, Hemel Hempstead, Watford, you know, all around Mayork.
Sam: So your local area.
Stephanie: Exactly. And what’s pretty good for me is that, one, there’s big business parks with, you know, like Sketchers, I’ve got Sketchers head office, the shoe brand just in St. Albans. I’ve done all that senior leadership team. So a lot of people also come to my office because they, you know, they live here, they work in London, but maybe they work three days a week. So on the day they’re working from home, they can pop in at lunchtime for a headshot. So that works well in that respect as well. So there is, you know, there’s more than enough work for me here and often too much kind of pass on to, again, a network of local photographers or videographers that I can pass work on.
Marcus: If I may just delve into your actual photography and your worker, Stephanie, I mean, I’m looking through it. It’s super clean, beautiful compositions. I think they use artificial lighting as well. Do you bring that into your practice?
Stephanie: Yeah, so all the corporate work I do is very few occasions that I’m just using natural light. So if I’m doing environmental work, I’m using, I’ve kind of bring a Godox AD200 on a stand and I use that. So in an office, unless the office is really well lit and evenly lit, I would always bring with me my AD200 on a very portable stand and just have it pointing at the ceiling to have some extra light coming from, you know, to illuminate the face. So I’m for, really, I am a portrait photographer. I do very little else. And so for me, it’s really important face as well. I know that’s a make or break. And if people don’t look good in photos, they’re not going to book you again, you know.
Marcus: Quite right. So maybe just some words of advice for maybe some of our listeners who I think of maybe pivoting from maybe like family photography that you did or whatever, pivoting into corporate photography. So maybe if you can give us a few little nuggets of advice there.
Stephanie: Okay, so I would say 100% trying to learn off-camera flash. I would say that’s a must because with family photography, you can do it outdoors. If it’s in a home, you can, so for years I was doing babies at home and you can take the baby, you know, bring it towards the window, find the best lit room in the house. You know, in an office, it could be, you know, the middle of December, there could be very little natural light. It could be that they want to showcase a backdrop with a lot of branding, but the light is all for me, like spotlights shining down, creating awful shadows on the face. And obviously, you know, like formal headshots where you might need them that modifies, etc. But at the very least have that flash on, you know, that you can have on a stick to put it where you want and create that window of light, just magicking out that window of light where you need the light. I think it’s definitely worth investing, you know, time and maybe a bit of money to training to work out how to do that, understanding how you balance the ambient light with the light from the flash to get the result that you want, whether you’re covering an event or just doing maybe a branding shoot in your client’s home or a place of work, being able to create light where there’s no light. You see, this is it, you know, in the age where a lot of people can get great results on their phones, I think being able to understand how to create light where you need it is a big differentiator for photography. This is what, you know, people, so I love going into a venue where the ambient light is terrible because I know I’m going to get photos that are, you know, over and above what anybody else can get on their phones and I’m adding a maximum value then.
Sam: Okay, cool. And we’ve got some past shows about lighting and we’ll put links to those in the show notes. I know it’s interesting that as a differentiator that, yeah, the people, if you’ve got, if it’s a beautiful sunset and it’s all there, you can get your iPhone, you can get a really good shot, but when the light’s terrible, that professional knowledge of what the light is, what you can add with the different lights is going to make a huge difference.
Stephanie: A hundred percent, yeah.
Marcus: And consistency as well, I’m just pointing that out as well. It’s not just having light, it’s having a consistent image that’s going to go throughout the day or consistent lighting temperature throughout the day.
Stephanie: Yeah, that’s very true because sometimes I might go into an office and they give me a room, even though I say I don’t need, you know, nice light, you know, there might be in a room where the light, you know, I’m here for the whole day taking photos of the whole company. If I was relying on the natural light, it’s going to change throughout the day and then maybe all of a sudden the sun’s going to pour into the room and then we have to find a plan B. And so being able to not have to, having to rely on the natural light is, you know, it’s a super power almost.
Marcus: Cool.
Sam: Is that almost, do you think that’s kind of a differentiator a bit for me because people are about these AI headshots and stuff. Do you think that’s kind of a differentiator as well, that real understanding of light and lighting?
Stephanie: I don’t know because I suppose, AI headshot is a whole different ball game.
I mean, your AI headshot, you know, the AI would do amazing light and it may not look like you at all, but, you know, it’s a photo that would look very nice, but it’s whether it actually is you or not. And I try not to post so much about AI headshot because I don’t want to plant that seed in people’s heads.
Sam: Yeah, it makes sense.
Stephanie: I don’t know where the future is going with AI. I think it’s a little bit, it’s a tricky subject. Yeah, yeah, 100%.
Marcus: Just if I may, just to dig into a little bit more about the headshot process and working with your clients. And yeah, a nice soft light is going to be great for lots of different people. You know, they can move around and it will still be illuminated correctly.What about a little bit? And you’ve sort of mentioned it a little bit there. What about the, as for how you deal with the people, getting them comfortable in front of the camera?
Stephanie: Okay, so I would say I try to, well, the thing is, I think you’ve got to work with your personality. First of all, I think if you’re not a people person, it’s going to be tricky to be a headshot photographer, right? So I know, for example, Martin’s got a different approach to mine because he’s kind of high energy jokes. I think it kind of gets them relaxed in a different way. I am quite, I don’t know if it’s come across, maybe I’m talking faster, maybe not, but I’m quite a quiet, calm person, but warm and welcoming. So they come into my space. I know they’re nervous. You know, I know it’s not necessarily their favorite thing to do. So unlike family photography, where they have chosen to have, you know, family shoot, headshots very often is something that either their employer or their brand agency or whoever said, you must have some headshots. And it’s something that very often they come and say, oh, I’m having my photo taken. So I take that into account. So they come in or I go to their office, they come into the room and I just, I think it’s kind of the energy, you know, that you kind of, that you give. I think it would be difficult to fake it, but just understanding where they’re coming from and also not take. So if, if they don’t like their photos straight away, not take it as a rejection of myself, but thinking, okay, there’s something about them. Let’s see if we can switch it up. Let’s see, you know, not dismissing their concerns. They’re saying, okay, you know, how about so give them little tips to avoid having a double chin. Understand not yet taking, taking them seriously, listening to them empathy, I would say.
The biggest thing.
Sam: Yeah. Okay. And that sounds a little bit as well. Like we’ve got a show on listening in the past, which is really relevant. But again, we’ll drop the link in the show notes. Excellent. I think we are unfortunately starting to come to the end up. We, that has been like huge amounts, so much for our listeners. You had one more thing. You wanted to go through there, Marcus.
Marcus: Well, not really. No, I mean, I was just thinking about what you’re saying. And I think it was a good, it’s a really empathy lighting. Those are two really good spots to finish on. We talked about the win-win situation, about what you give and to get things back. I think we’ve covered a lot of ground there. I’m very happy with the show.
Sam: Excellent. Yes. So, Stephanie, thank you so, so much for being with us. It has been brilliant. And listeners, you obviously want to make sure that you keep getting the shoot to the top show in your inbox every week so you don’t miss a show. So the simplest way to do that is go to the website. And from there, you can sign up to the newsletter. So the shoot to the top website drops in your inbox every single week. And that will be obviously the highlight of your week. Stephanie, thank you so much for being with us. And Marcus, I’ll see you next week.
Marcus: Thank you, Stephanie. See you next week, Sam.
Stephanie: Absolutely pleasure. Thanks for having me.
