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This week, we’re joined by personal branding experts Kaz Grant and headshot photographer Toby Lee. Toby has built an excellent personal brand which has helped him to stand out from the crowd and attract new customers. They discuss how all photographers can use their personal brand to grow their business. We explore why your reputation is more important than ever and how you can leverage it to get more work. Tune in to discover why a strong personal brand is the key to standing out in a crowded market.
What You’ll Learn From This Episode:
Discover the secrets to building a personal brand. You’ll learn what a personal brand actually is and how it can help you get ahead in your photography business.
Find out how to attract new customers. We reveal how to make your social media and video content work for you by turning a passive audience into active clients. We also discuss other key marketing channels.
Learn how to make personal branding an enjoyable process. We give you practical tips for creating a personal branding strategy that feels authentic and fun, so you can do it consistently and see the benefits.
“Show Transcription”
00:00.80
Marcus Ahmad
Oh, there it is. It’s the top.
00:00.70
Sam Hollis
Yeah, there is.
00:02.06
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah, there we go.
00:05.08
Sam Hollis
Hello, Marcus. How are you doing?
00:07.21
Marcus Ahmad
I am very good, Sam. Very good indeed. And how are you?
00:11.46
Sam Hollis
Yeah, excellent. Very good. And looking forward to the show.
00:16.34
Marcus Ahmad
Cool.
00:16.28
Sam Hollis
So we have two really interesting guests with us, Marcus. We have with us Toby Lee, who we have seen before, and Kaz Grant, who’s brand new to the show, both hosts of the Brand You podcast. Welcome to the show.
00:30.85
Headshot Toby
Thanks for having me back.
00:31.30
Caz Grant
Hey, thanks for having me on.
00:32.84
Marcus Ahmad
Welcome, welcome. i Elbow room only in here today. We’re all a bit cramped, but luckily we’re all out of shower and we brushed our teeth so we’re okay.
00:38.76
Headshot Toby
That’s it.
00:45.54
Sam Hollis
Excellent. Do you want to do you guys want to very briefly, you know, if we give you like a minute very briefly introduce yourselves?
00:52.90
Headshot Toby
yeah Do you want to go first, Kaz?
00:54.90
Caz Grant
Go on then. and So my my name is Kaz Grant and I run a personal branding agency called Quirk.
00:56.80
Headshot Toby
Yeah.
01:00.73
Headshot Toby
Thank
01:01.14
Caz Grant
So we basically help people shine online um personally, not through their businesses professionally. And that is how kind of me and Toby met, wasn’t it?
01:12.55
Headshot Toby
That’s it. So I’m i’m a headshot photographer and personal branding photographer. And Kaz and I met through networking and together we host the Brand You podcast, which essentially helps anybody looking to build their personal brand um in a way that is going to be productive for your business.
01:31.14
Headshot Toby
So it’s actually going to start organically generating you know leads and conversations that are going to go somewhere.
01:31.62
Caz Grant
Thank
01:38.29
Headshot Toby
We’re not necessarily focused on like numbers or how do algorithms work or anything like that. it’s not about the amount of followers. It’s about how can you really, yeah you know, utilize how you’re coming across and being seen, essentially.
01:52.32
Sam Hollis
Amazing. um And that is kind of what we’re going to be talking about today, I think, isn’t it?
01:53.91
Marcus Ahmad
Very cool.
01:56.12
Sam Hollis
That personal branding and how as a photographer, you can leverage that personal branding to to get you more business, to get you more leads and customers.
02:04.56
Headshot Toby
That’s it, absolutely. I think i think it’s very easy with with whatever service you might offer to focus on what it is you do and really make sure that you’re sharing your portfolio or anything like that.
02:10.80
Caz Grant
you
02:14.72
Headshot Toby
But really, any service, um we we make decisions on… Yeah.
02:27.25
Headshot Toby
um a lot of what we share on the podcast is you know how is your content coming across your tone of voice how are you visually representing yourself if you’re a photographer and you’ve you’ve got a mobile selfie on there
02:38.47
Caz Grant
So, you know, it’s a lot things.
02:40.80
Headshot Toby
we really need to look into that because you’re losing that credibility instantly or, you know, you’re taking one step forward, two steps back. So, um yeah and and what we like to on the podcast as well, at the end of each episode, we offer an actionable step. So that’s something that on the theme of that episode will give you something that you can go and implement today into your business, your personal brand, and you can keep taking those stepping stones forward. So hopefully we’ve got lots of tips to be able to share today.
03:09.59
Marcus Ahmad
if If I may, i mean, we we’ve talked about personal branding on this show a few times.
03:10.38
Sam Hollis
Amazing.
03:14.07
Marcus Ahmad
We’ve had some great guests on talking about it. Just maybe, Kaz, let’s have your take on what you think a personal brand is, because it’s quite a recent term, isn’t it?
03:25.75
Caz Grant
Yeah, I think it’s been going around for ages. We’ve all been creating and have personal brands ourselves. It’s basically our reputation, isn’t it? It’s what people think of you when they look at you. And we’re either curating that and making that happen, or we’re plodding along in life, hoping that what we’re sharing on social media and comes across in the right way.
03:46.34
Caz Grant
Does it? Does it not? So getting intentional about personal branding and getting strategic about it is really, really honing your messaging, honing your visuals, like Toby said, and creating more of that persona that you want people to know you for.
04:01.96
Marcus Ahmad
And how can that benefit the business then?
04:01.67
Sam Hollis
Okay. You two are both mentioning online. Sorry, go on, Marcus.
04:07.40
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah, how how can that benefit the business then? How can having a great personal band brand, it’s a leading question this I know, but how can having a great personal brand benefit me as a photographer?
04:19.82
Caz Grant
What?
04:19.95
Headshot Toby
so so So from my perspective, sorry, Kaz, there’s that little delay there where we’re both like itching at the bit to to get in.
04:20.75
Caz Grant
You go. Sorry.
04:23.64
Sam Hollis
ah
04:24.56
Marcus Ahmad
There is a delay, yes.
04:25.38
Caz Grant
equi
04:26.59
Headshot Toby
oh ah No, I’ll jump in. So just from my perspective, I think if you can um break down any barriers between you and a potential client, somebody asking a question about something you offer, asking about the process, asking about, you know, why do I need this?
04:42.93
Headshot Toby
What would you recommend? You know, it’s not necessarily using personal brand to go, that’s going to get me loads more business. and Hopefully it will. But if it can start those conversations organically and more frequently and consistently, um suddenly your efforts are then so well placed in in your business.
05:02.55
Headshot Toby
and But yeah, what would you Kaz?
05:05.33
Caz Grant
Yeah, was just going to, you’re really good with your own personal brand at aiming kind of what you’re putting out to talk directly to your ideal audience. So everybody has fears and hesitations, don’t they, when they’re going to a photographer, right? The first thing people say is I hate my photo taken.
05:23.74
Caz Grant
um I’m going to feel awkward. I don’t know where to put my hands and all of this kind of stuff.
05:27.24
Sam Hollis
Okay.
05:27.92
Caz Grant
what you do really well, Toby, is break that down through your content so that even before someone comes to you, they’re feeling so much more comfortable and confident in what you’re going to achieve for them.
05:28.42
Headshot Toby
Hmm. Hmm.
05:40.25
Caz Grant
So it’s kind of using your personal brand to do that, isn’t it? And breaking down, like you say, those walls to somebody coming to see you. if You can get someone to, you know, trust you enough to start a conversation with you.
05:51.61
Caz Grant
That could lead to a sale, a client, something, a referral, something like that in the future.
05:55.89
Sam Hollis
yeah
05:57.56
Caz Grant
If could just break down that wall and be that approachable photographer, or like we said before, any service, then you’re winning over other people instantly.
06:04.32
Headshot Toby
Yeah.
06:08.34
Sam Hollis
Okay. So is it almost like a lot, because a lot of people say you’re on social media, and but they struggle to move people then to make a call and to convert them into a customer and kind of move them along.
06:18.69
Sam Hollis
Are you saying that personal brand is really helping them to take those steps and move to just seeing the stuff on po social media to making that call and contacting is almost… you’ve been so helpful and so friendly on social media, they’re thinking, well, I’ll just pick up the call and talk this guy because almost I feel you know i feel like I know them, I feel like they really can help me, rather than i’ve just seen lots of posts that they’re going to do another photo shoot.
06:41.62
Caz Grant
yeah yeah it’s called building a parasocial also we need a cue sorry no sorry toby it’s called building a parasocial um relationship isn’t it with your audience that’s what you’re doing on social media so like you say
06:41.84
Headshot Toby
Yeah, and I think it’s also been
06:46.04
Headshot Toby
You go for it.
06:50.01
Sam Hollis
That’s right.
06:57.87
Caz Grant
you’re breaking down that barrier to anybody getting in touch with you, making that conversation. It’s not going to complete your whole funnel, obviously with marketing and and offering your services and getting people to buy. There’s a whole funnel and steps that you need those people to take.
07:12.94
Caz Grant
But the initial one is that would they go and message you? Would they go and speak to you? Would they go and have that conversation? If you’ve not got that, then the rest of the steps aren’t going to slot into place because that trust isn’t formed.
07:26.88
Marcus Ahmad
Mm-hmm.
07:28.14
Sam Hollis
Okay. And then you’ve talked both of you a lot about i am online building the personal brand. What about offline too? Because as a photographer, you turn up and if what you they see when you turn up is not what you’ve been presenting as social media, presumably that’s also a problem.
07:44.85
Headshot Toby
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that’s why I try to sort of mirror how I come across in person online as much as possible. Like Kaz mentioned, through that, whether it’s written content or the video work work that I do, so people actually hear how I speak and how I might be explaining things so that we…
07:57.97
Caz Grant
Please watch the camera.
08:02.91
Headshot Toby
I mean, I guess the best the best thing that you can do with a personal brand is feel like you’ve already met before. And that’s a good sign of when it’s working for you that you turn up to event and somebody might actually come over and say hello to you.
08:09.68
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
08:14.18
Headshot Toby
And I’ve had this on occasion where I sort of think, oh, blimey, I don’t remember this person’s name. I don’t actually remember meeting them. And it turns out I haven’t. It’s just that they might have seen some videos and that made them feel comfortable enough to start that conversation.
08:22.74
Sam Hollis
yeah
08:26.64
Headshot Toby
um So, yeah, really, it’s it’s a case of in-person just being
08:31.48
Caz Grant
Just
08:32.07
Headshot Toby
really understanding what it is that that you offer, how it is you build relationships and communicate with people so that you can then just extend that further online in what you do. So it definitely has to come from who who you are as a person, I think. Yeah.
08:49.01
Marcus Ahmad
Toby, if I might ask you.
08:48.65
Sam Hollis
Yeah, it reminds me, actually. can i just I’ve got a quick story, Marcus, and then you do your question, if that’s right, just related to that.
08:52.44
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah, go for go for it. ah there’s always a story There’s always a story from Sam. Does it involve your daughters, by any chance?
08:55.42
Sam Hollis
There’s always a story. so No, it doesn’t, this one.
08:59.00
Marcus Ahmad
Oh, there’s a change.
08:58.72
Sam Hollis
So it reminds me of I was in a national network chain a few years ago, for where 4N, when 4N was quite a big national chain.
09:00.87
Marcus Ahmad
Holidays?
09:05.68
Headshot Toby
Yeah.
09:05.84
Sam Hollis
And there was kind of it worked where there was local meetings, but there was odd big national meetings.
09:06.52
Marcus Ahmad
Oh, yes.
09:09.20
Sam Hollis
And there was you know Facebook groups and stuff. And then there was this person. don’t trying to remember name now I remembered it at the time i think it was called Kaz or someone she was always there she was always she was always on the Facebook groups making lots of comments making videos had a very strong personality very strong personal brand and yeah I was working at a completely randomly I was in Northampton for some reason I think that was my wife was working there and I just went into a co-working space I just worked for the day and then this person walked in and I just kind of almost went up and said oh hello nice to meet you
09:40.69
Headshot Toby
Yeah.
09:40.48
Sam Hollis
and And it was her and I’d never met her before. and And it was that really strong personal brand. And you were right. I felt like I’d met her before. it was good And then I was going, has she been to any of other the meetings? yeah I don’t think she had, but it was just, I think she had purple hair as well, which obviously was quite a strong personal brand.
09:55.51
Sam Hollis
But yeah, it was instantly, you feel like you know them.
09:56.12
Caz Grant
Thank you.
09:58.47
Sam Hollis
It’s almost like when people bump into a celebrity in the street, I guess, and feel like you’re going to say hello. They feel, because they’ve watched them on TV, they know them.
10:05.94
Headshot Toby
Yeah, and I think we can totally overcomplicate things when it comes to thinking, right, I really need to get a LinkedIn post out today. I don’t know what to what to write. And we can really overcomplicate. Whereas if we just go back to, okay, say I was stood in front of my ideal client right now, what is it they would ask?
10:21.83
Headshot Toby
you know And usually, you know like Kaz mentioned, it’s usually the comments of, oh, you’re not going to get my chins, are you?
10:25.48
Caz Grant
Thank you.
10:27.69
Headshot Toby
And you know ah what what do you do about this?
10:29.36
Sam Hollis
yeah
10:30.34
Headshot Toby
Or you know and what should I wear? And as soon as you start brainstorming those questions, There’s actually tons of you know pain points you can work on um that you can just start answering in your in your social media content and answer as you as if you’re just chatting.
10:46.26
Headshot Toby
And that just has a huge effect to to you know create that impression that that you’re sort of talking about, Sam. Absolutely. That’s a great story. I like that.
10:55.37
Sam Hollis
Cool. Marcus, go on. Sorry.
10:57.88
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah, thanks, Sam. um I mean, the question I was going to ask was, yeah, I get it. Social media is a great platform for building your personal brand. And this was more maybe to Toby or Kaz. Either of you could answer this one actually because you’re both involved in the biz.
11:11.89
Marcus Ahmad
How can what other ways can you raise your profile apart from just social media? I mean, you you mentioned networking, of course, that’s another way. But what other ways can you do it?
11:24.27
Caz Grant
Well, I think that’s one of the reasons that we started the brand new podcast as well. So we’ve started the podcast to raise our own visibility and things. There’s things like podcasts. um But there’s also the in-person networking. And I think the thing that I’m an I run an online business.
11:40.64
Caz Grant
I can have clients anywhere in the world. So social media for me is great because it’s going to open up doors that I can’t necessarily get to in person. But for Toby, he can only go to certain locations.
11:52.25
Caz Grant
Yes, someone can fly him to Dubai or wherever, but mostly it’s going to be more localized. So you’ve got to think about the business that you run. And I guess for photographers, you’ve got to think about your area and then think about what things are in your area that your ideal audience will go to.
12:08.49
Caz Grant
So networking is a great one because if you’re doing professional photo shoots and things like that, a lot of professional people are going to need your services, aren’t they, at some point. So networking is going to be great.
12:19.22
Caz Grant
and But what other things? I mean, Toby, you could probably answer that rest of that question probably a bit easier.
12:26.36
Headshot Toby
Yeah, it makes me think about the episode we had recently, Kaz, about collaboration. You know, if you if you think about what opportunities there are for your business to connect with other businesses and utilize each other’s audiences, suddenly you’ve you’ve got a a whole plethora of ways to reach people. So, yeah.
12:44.15
Headshot Toby
you know, yet there’s a podcast. I, off the back of networking and getting fed up with people doing 60 second sales pitches where they just push themselves on you. um I created a business magazine.
12:55.27
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
12:55.83
Headshot Toby
So, you know, it’s it’s now got an online platform and all the previous articles are up there for people to read, but that’s, local businesses were encouraged to offer a value led article where I did some photos for them as well. So it served as a great marketing tool for me to the local business community. But at the same time, it was bringing businesses together.
13:14.97
Headshot Toby
I was, ah you know, I’m, I’m seen as the organizer of that as well. So, you know, it helps push my brand out there. um You know, running events together, you know, if, if,
13:26.25
Headshot Toby
and And the good thing about collaboration as well, if if you’re a photographer, it doesn’t necessarily have to be with a certain industry. You know, your business can collaborate with anyone.
13:36.37
Headshot Toby
You know, we see it with, you know, sports brands collaborating with energy drinks, collaborating with, you know, double glazing.
13:38.94
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
13:43.47
Headshot Toby
You know, it really doesn’t matter. The fact that that you’re you’re coming together and you’re bringing your audiences together, you can almost be as creative ah as as you wish to be. um So, yeah, I think, I think,
13:53.75
Headshot Toby
really thinking outside the box. there’s There’s lots of ways to be unique about these things.
14:00.80
Headshot Toby
Good timing.
14:03.75
Caz Grant
I’m glad it’s my new new lover
14:09.94
Sam Hollis
dogs.
14:11.46
Caz Grant
I know there’s no way that all of us do this without a dog going off
14:12.20
Sam Hollis
Cool. um
14:16.50
Marcus Ahmad
Ha, ha, ha, ha.
14:16.75
Sam Hollis
No, it never happens. um So earlier, Kaz, I noticed you were saying Toby is really speaking to his audience. um So that got me thinking about niching. Can you really have a good personal brand as a photographer if you don’t also have a niche and you’re just a general photographer?
14:37.78
Caz Grant
I think you can. I get it. It’s all down to your goals as well. Like how big do you want to get? How many of that specific niche are in your locality? It’s a bigger question than just can you or can’t you?
14:50.50
Caz Grant
I think you can be successful whether you niche down or not in any area.
14:51.53
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
14:55.02
Caz Grant
Um, social media is going to like it more if you do niche down just because the algorithm and everything, it picks up on certain things, doesn’t it? pushes your content to certain people.
15:05.61
Caz Grant
Um, And also if you’re in public and you’re going to meetings, you know which meetings to go to or which meetings not to go to. So when you don’t niche down, there might be, you know, you might have to speak to 100 people and out of that only 10 people you end up working with. Whereas if you niche down, you’ll go to a meeting where those 10 people are at and you’ll be able to potentially speak to all of them they all might work with you.
15:27.21
Caz Grant
So there’s benefits and pluses and minuses for each, but it totally depends on your goals and what you want to achieve and and what your business as a photographer looks like.
15:28.12
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
15:35.79
Caz Grant
um ah I think it’s good in a way if you can, but also with your personal brand, you want it to be, you know, it’s you’re fronting it. So if it’s a niche and you don’t like that niche and you have nothing that resonates with that niche either, and you’re just trying to break into this, so that’s going to be really hard for you to do.
15:50.58
Sam Hollis
Okay.
15:57.00
Caz Grant
So if you’re going to pick a niche, you better pick one that you can get behind and get passionate about as well.
15:57.02
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yeah.
16:02.53
Caz Grant
um I know that if anyone wants a photographer for run clubs and coffee, Toby is going to be your man because he’s running and he loves a coffee afterwards. But if you don’t like that, that’s going be difficult to get into.
16:14.28
Caz Grant
um So, yeah, think about your niche if you are going to pick one, if if you can really get passionate about that area.
16:23.07
Marcus Ahmad
So, it ah go on Sam, you’re going to say something there, sorry I interrupted.
16:22.60
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
16:26.40
Sam Hollis
There you go, Marcus.
16:28.09
Marcus Ahmad
Okay. Yeah, so you mentioned these all these different ways of platforms, magazines, podcasts, you know, these things that we all do really to promote promote ourselves, our personal brand. But you don’t talk about photography.
16:40.45
Marcus Ahmad
Does that not come into it?
16:42.95
Headshot Toby
I think it definitely does in terms of, I think, i think I certainly am’ well aware of the imagery I put out there and making sure that that represents me in a certain way that’s in keeping with um you know how I come across in videos and things and and reinforce that personal brand.
17:01.31
Headshot Toby
um So yeah, there are lots of ways you be creative with that, absolutely. um And I guess it it depends on what area of photography you’re in as well. you know how How can you be creative with that, that you still feature yourself ah in the interiors that you’re photographing if you’re a property photographer. You know, how can you really…
17:18.82
Headshot Toby
um make sure that you’re you’re sort of, I guess, being the face of things. Sometimes we try and let our work do the talking for us. um But if if a potential ah you know employer is is looking at 10 different, they’ve got 10 tabs open of property photographers, what’s going to be the differentiator? And that’s going to be, do they like and trust in an instance, the person who is producing these photos? you know Because at the end of the day,
17:46.90
Headshot Toby
The quality of our work is fantastic. Sometimes the decision really comes down to price and, you know, flexibility. um
17:55.58
Marcus Ahmad
Does it?
17:57.14
Headshot Toby
Sorry?
17:58.09
Marcus Ahmad
Does it?
17:59.29
Headshot Toby
Well, I think…
17:59.74
Sam Hollis
Yeah, I don’t think… Sorry, go on, Toby.
18:03.84
Headshot Toby
No, I mean, i mean from from from my my sort of… ah like i Yeah, I guess i’m I’m going off my experiences, but, you know, I think that’s that the the work we would like to think comes first and foremost in terms of what what makes decision as somebody to get in touch with us. um But I think that we need to reinforce that with…
18:22.78
Headshot Toby
who we are, who’s the person creating it and making sure that’s coming across strongly enough so that when we do reach that reach that conversation of price, that it’s only reinforcing or justifying whatever it is that you’re charging.
18:37.08
Headshot Toby
If that makes sense.
18:37.38
Marcus Ahmad
Okay. Yeah.
18:37.70
Sam Hollis
I think also the average man in the street cannot differentiate between most professional photographers.
18:38.31
Marcus Ahmad
yeah
18:43.32
Sam Hollis
Now, OK, there’ll be like two in 100, which you can differentiate because they’re terrible. ah But, you know, beyond the odd one, you know, if you’ve got 10 professional photographers, pictures of property in front of you.
18:55.33
Sam Hollis
Yes, if you’re a photographer, you can probably critique them. If you’re an average man in the street, they all look like pretty photos of property. property ah and they’re going to go, yeah, is this person reliable? Are they going to turn up? what’s That’s what’s going to differentiate because they look at the pictures and they go, yeah, okay, those ones can’t take pictures of property. But beyond that, the rest them all look lovely.
19:13.27
Sam Hollis
Who am I going to have? I’m going to have the guy that I understand, the guy or the woman that is going to turn up on time that I think is reliable, that’s explained how it works, that’s, yeah, has been flexible and has been able to come on a Saturday, whatever it is.
19:25.78
Sam Hollis
Those images alone do not, to me, don’t sell it.
19:26.44
Marcus Ahmad
yeah
19:28.47
Sam Hollis
People are not photography critics.
19:31.33
Headshot Toby
No, and I’d say, you know…
19:32.02
Marcus Ahmad
well i I don’t think that’s true actually I don’t think doine that’s true at all I think ah people are very aware of what makes a good photograph and I think The democratisation of photography since the digitalised age, know, the iPhone has made people much more aware of what a good photograph is.
19:46.36
Sam Hollis
Thank you.
19:49.37
Headshot Toby
Yeah, and I think i think the the counter to that, though, is it’s made people spend differently, i think, you know, or they’re more aware of… how much something should cost or would cost them and therefore make a decision as to whether they’ll use a generate content or whether they will go down the professional route. So I’m only going off my experiences of working with brands where sometimes the decision, and you know, I might’ve had great conversations with ah the the marketing department who really value the visuals and getting really quality shots of something but then the decision gets signed off by somebody else who isn’t necessarily creatively thinking and and is logistical and they’ if they’ve presented with an A and a B option they might sometimes just go well we’ll we’ll go with B i’m so so yeah there’s there’s there’s definitely yin and yang and I think that’s um
20:36.43
Headshot Toby
you know, in terms of going back to personal branding, it’s it’s how much can you reinforce every communication you have so that when it comes to that final sales conversation, it’s as easy and smooth as possible that you know that they’re bought into you, not just your work.
20:43.68
Marcus Ahmad
Yes.
20:51.74
Headshot Toby
I think that’s the differentiator we’re probably trying to get across.
20:51.91
Marcus Ahmad
Exactly. Exactly. That’s exactly it. No stone uncovered. You have to cover you have to be ah yeah you know you had to be a good photographer. You have to have work that’s different to everybody else’s.
21:04.51
Marcus Ahmad
You have to be a nice person. And you have to be a professional as well.
21:06.28
Headshot Toby
Yeah,
21:09.82
Headshot Toby
yeah because a lot of work as well.
21:10.61
Marcus Ahmad
that’s what makes a That’s what makes a personal brand.
21:13.37
Headshot Toby
Exactly. and And personal brand is going to lead to more referrals. Do you know i mean? The idea is that you know everyone’s had a great experience and people can’t wait to share about you and shout about you that you are doing as little marketing yourself as you sort of need to do, um that that that that you’ve got that general filter of people knowing who you are and coming to you.
21:18.14
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
21:33.51
Headshot Toby
That’s that’s the goal, isn’t it?
21:34.49
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
21:35.43
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah, I agree with you. trade um I find that most of my customers come to me and we don’t talk about price.
21:35.97
Sam Hollis
And I guess, yeah.
21:40.93
Marcus Ahmad
They come to me because they they they they like my photography and they want photography like mine. They want my product.
21:45.55
Headshot Toby
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that’s good. That’s positive.
21:48.73
Sam Hollis
Yeah, and then I guess as a photographer also, you’ve got a big advantage over many other businesses because what you produce is so shareable. You know, poor accountants, they might have done an amazing job of your account, but frankly, it’s not that exciting.
21:58.14
Marcus Ahmad
Exactly. Very true. That’s right, Sam.
22:02.16
Sam Hollis
You’re not going to share your account, first of all, essentially.
22:04.41
Marcus Ahmad
Yes.
22:03.92
Sam Hollis
It’s not that exciting to share, like, you know, these really nice photos that I’ve just got. So you have got, and it only takes a little nudge, doesn’t it? And people sometimes naturally share them or they might need a nudge, but you’ve got something there that people can share so easily.
22:19.41
Marcus Ahmad
Exactly.
22:22.93
Marcus Ahmad
It’s self replicating in some ways, isn’t it?
22:22.66
Sam Hollis
Cool. Right. ah That’s it. So i we’ve talked all sorts of areas personal brand. Kaz, do you think there’s areas we’ve kind of we’ve missed out in conversation so far? Anything in while we’ve covered this, this, but there’s this big area of personal brand we’ve completely forgotten about here.
22:40.03
Caz Grant
I think there’s an element with personal branding that I really believe in having fun with it. And this will lead into the creative side of photography as well, won’t it? I mean, if you’re enjoying the work that you’re creating and what you’re what you’re putting out to the world, others will feel that energy from it as well.
23:00.67
Caz Grant
So again, it’s like that finding what makes it fun for you because we’re all busy running our businesses, being photographers, doing all of that side to it, getting the customers in, speaking to the customers, doing the shots.
23:13.10
Caz Grant
If you’re then having to force your personal branding alongside that because you don’t enjoy it, you don’t like creating videos, or you don’t like doing this, and but you’re forcing it because that’s how we create a personal brand, that’s what we must do, then it’s going to become really hard and you’re going to stop it.
23:27.43
Caz Grant
and And we want the consistency of this going. So if you can make it as fun for yourself as possible as well, um I think that’s a really underlooked kind of um skill that you can get and that will enable you to have longevity with your personal brand as well.
23:45.50
Caz Grant
I think you have fun with yours, Toby, don’t you?
23:46.25
Marcus Ahmad
Nice, thanks.
23:48.85
Headshot Toby
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I love as well. but One of the great things about doing the podcast is I get to bounce ideas with Kaz every week. And um if if you were to go back through from we’re on our third series now, but in the in the first series, it was very much the the essentials of setting up a personal brand and
23:56.08
Sam Hollis
Okay.
24:06.08
Headshot Toby
And at the time, i was sort of going through that process again, because it’s always good to review those things that even if you think you’re hitting every nail on the head, it’s good to just review those every now and then because our businesses evolve, our goals evolve, our values evolve.
24:22.45
Headshot Toby
um And it’s really good to just to keep keep checking in with that.
24:26.64
Sam Hollis
Yeah. And how do you keep it fun? though So for some people, they enjoy it. they You can see Toby does. He loves it, can’t you But for some people, they find that sort of thing fun and they’re very busy and they are just like, oh, I haven’t got long. I’ve got to do something. And then you’re right. They come across terribly, don’t they?
24:41.16
Sam Hollis
So how can we kind of try and step back and and make it more fun when we’re in that situation?
24:47.93
Caz Grant
I think and knowing what you enjoy creating first. So if you are literally there and you hate videos and, you know, taking a video outtake takes you 25,000 attempts.
24:53.05
Sam Hollis
Okay.
24:59.60
Caz Grant
You hate every second of it. You’re cringing inside. It’s like a real. sweat beads dripping down your face like that is not for you so stop even creating video content you’re great at photography so use your photography skills to take an image of yourself and then share that instead with a text um story alongside it something like that um
25:05.92
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yeah.
25:10.11
Sam Hollis
Right. Yeah.
25:21.14
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
25:22.54
Caz Grant
So it’s again, it’s just knowing what you enjoy doing. that There is also going to be an element of, you know, you do have to get things out sometimes. Things like scheduling your content when you’re in that creative flow.
25:30.22
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
25:32.61
Caz Grant
And maybe you’ve got that downtime because I’m sure with photography, like any business, there are times when you’re really busy and you’ve got so much going on.
25:33.96
Sam Hollis
yeah
25:40.95
Caz Grant
And then there are times where you’ve got a bit of a lull and you can catch up on things. Can you create it when you’re in that bit of a lull with clients? so that then it’s scheduled for the rest of the time as well. So you’re not thinking, I have to create this now.
25:50.84
Sam Hollis
Yeah. Yeah.
25:52.82
Caz Grant
Oh, I forgot to post. I forgot to do that. You’re creating at a time where you’ve got more creativity and you can stop and think about it and you can do the things that create more fun with it as well.
26:03.01
Caz Grant
So little things like that um can make it a bit more of an enjoyable process.
26:04.11
Marcus Ahmad
Mm-hmm.
26:06.99
Caz Grant
I do tend to find, though, the more in flow you get with it, the more you do enjoy it as well. So it’s harder at first, it’s harder to batch create to get it all together.
26:18.39
Caz Grant
But once you’re in the flow of it, and you feel like you’ve got ahead as well, there’s something like so immensely, like I’ve achieved something I’m ahead with my content, even if clients come through the door.
26:25.65
Sam Hollis
Yeah, yeah.
26:27.36
Caz Grant
Now, people, my lead generators are still going out. So um yeah, utilising a bit of foresight and thinking, right, let’s plan and schedule this is huge.
26:37.32
Sam Hollis
Okay. And that sounding, trying what you like, I think is really good because there are some people like this that i must I’ve been told I must do a video or I must do this and and that you it is going to cost terrible, isn’t it? And yeah, perhaps, like you say, try some different things because it might be you still not find anything like.
26:51.42
Sam Hollis
Yeah, try some little, and you do little animations, don’t you? some marks Try some animations, try making some videos and that, try doing a guest on a pod, try stuff until you fight and then eventually you’ll find something that go, well, actually quite like this.
27:01.56
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah.
27:03.89
Caz Grant
yeah slowly yeah absolutely absolutely
27:03.39
Sam Hollis
And that’s where you’ll shine, isn’t it?
27:06.38
Marcus Ahmad
Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Good. And what about more traditional…
27:09.23
Sam Hollis
Cool. We are.
27:10.69
Marcus Ahmad
Oh, okay, we’re finishing up.
27:12.26
Sam Hollis
Go Marcus.
27:12.86
Marcus Ahmad
Okay. what What about… and
27:13.68
Sam Hollis
It’s all right. We can do one more.
27:16.31
Marcus Ahmad
I was going to ask about more traditional um forms of promotion or branding, may I say, like galleries, photographic shows, editorial, that kind of thing. Any last thoughts on those?
27:31.69
Headshot Toby
Yeah, all those are ah great ways, obviously, of getting out there. My my experience has mainly been with with businesses or individual professionals. so in terms of galleries, I’ve never really explored that route, but I imagine there’s there’s fantastic opportunities there.
27:46.18
Headshot Toby
if If you can be either leading an exhibition or leading an event, um or certainly, you know, if it’s not something you can do on your own, collaborate with spaces and collaborate with people that can
27:57.35
Marcus Ahmad
Mm-hmm. That’s right. Mm-hmm
27:57.93
Headshot Toby
share that workload you know the one of the reasons the podcast that me and Kaz do has gone so long is because there’s two of us involved and I’m sure you guys probably feel the same that you’re sharing that workload and you’ve got your own responsibilities now um but yeah and and and depending what what area of photography you’re in I know it’s so broad for everyone but you know there’ll be trade shows for everyone there will be opportunities to get in front of people um and
28:05.15
Sam Hollis
Yeah.
28:07.48
Marcus Ahmad
right
28:15.19
Marcus Ahmad
sir
28:22.32
Headshot Toby
it’s it’s just having a think about what materials you can you can have with you, whether it is a ah brochure, a booklet, banners, all those things. And how do you keep those on point with how people will come across you on your website and so on? So you’ve got that through line and that consistency.
28:38.89
Headshot Toby
Because the last thing you want is to give someone a business card. they’ve yeahve They’ve had a real rapport of you and they get to your website and they go, this don’t feel like it’s the same person. You know, we want that shop window consistency.
28:49.19
Marcus Ahmad
Cool. Good answer. good i
28:51.18
Sam Hollis
Excellent. Brilliant. We have discussed loads and loads of points to go through there. there is There is plenty to take away. Like you said, Toby, in your podcast, you give action points. i think yes I think we’ve been taking notes.
29:02.67
Sam Hollis
You’ve got a lot of action points to go away and do this afternoon.
29:04.42
Headshot Toby
yeah
29:07.48
Sam Hollis
Not least, work out what you actually enjoy doing. i think I think that’s a really good one.
29:11.27
Headshot Toby
That’s it, yeah.
29:12.45
Sam Hollis
um So, yes, thank you so, so much for being on the show with us today. um and Marcus, I will see you next week.
29:21.75
Marcus Ahmad
Thank you. Yes. See you next week, Sam. And thank so much, Kaz and Toby. Thank you.
29:25.07
Headshot Toby
Thanks for having us.
29:25.59
Caz Grant
Thank you for having us.
29:25.74
Headshot Toby
Cheers.
29:30.16
Sam Hollis
Stop.
