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“Show Notes”
Struggling to protect your work and get more clients? In this episode, we chat with award winning travel photographer Nico Trinkhouse who shares his experiences turning a negative situation into a positive business venture.
Three Things You’ll Learn
• How his personal journey with copyright led to a new business and a proven way for photographers to get paid when their images are used illegally.
• Why his unconventional approach to blogging has become his most effective marketing tool for finding and winning high value clients.
• How he discovered a business model that is far more profitable than the common low margin route, and how you can apply the same principles to your work.
“Show Transcription”
00:00 –> 00:12
Hi Marcus, how are you? I’m very well thank you Sam and welcome back from your holidays,
00:12 –> 00:17
I hope you had a great time. Thank you very much, excellent yes catch up on some sunshine
00:17 –> 00:29
and time with family and stuff. Yeah very good, how are you Marcus? Yeah I’m good, it’s been a great summer Sam, what can I say? UK has had the most amazing summer, it’s been beautiful.
00:29 –> 00:59
There we go and today we have a guest Marcus, so today we have with us, we have Nico Trinkhouse who is an award-winning travel photographer, hi Nico welcome to the show. Hi
Sam, hi Marcus nice to be here. Hi Nico. Excellent, so we have lots to talk about, people can go to your website and take a look at the photos, but I think one of the things that first
caught our imagination talking to you,
00:59 –> 01:10
is copyright, because this is a big issue for all sorts of photographers isn’t it, and kind of
protecting your work, and my understanding is this something you’ve kind of become a bit of an expert on?
01:11 –> 01:41
Yeah yeah indeed, so it’s like my whole journey as a photographer was already starting with the topic of copyright, because when I was still, like when I was just doing it as a hobby in 2011, 2012, I did a blog, I published a photo there, one every day, and then at some point I had a photo that went viral, and I got a press agency deal with it, and they sold it to a couple of newspapers, also in the
01:41 –> 01:58
And I was like, okay, and I was like, oh, I want to know, oh, I want to know, like where does this show up? And the agent said, like, we can tell you, but typically takes like two months, and
they were printed. So I wanted to have the printed magazine in my hand, you know, to see my photo being shown up there. Like, I mean, it’s an amazing thing when you’re starting out.
And so I used the Google image search to find it. And there was like, I think like 70 hundred infringements of like big hotels and everything. And so ever since then, I, I look a lot into
where my photos pop up. And yeah, taking care of the copyright.
02:19 –> 02:27
This wasn’t just you know, kids doing school projects and putting them in their PowerPoints. This was big companies just listing your photos for the blog and using it.
02:28 –> 02:33
This was like big five star hotels, airlines, travel agencies, pretty much everything.
02:34 –> 02:38
That’s crazy. How long ago was this, Nico? Sorry, just how long ago was this?
02:39 –> 02:43
Like this was 2013 that I found this out the first time.
02:43 –> 02:55
Wow. Okay. And so how can you do a search for an image? So I when I use the Google
search for images, I kind of type in, you know, I want a picture of a dog, but you know, and it comes up, can you put in an image and it finds one’s the same?
02:56 –> 03:08
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So if you go to the Google image search, you can drag and drop a photo into the search bar. And then basically, it does a reverse look up and it shows where those shows up.
03:09 –> 03:21
So I guess that’s the first thing for photographers then is awareness that this is an issue and have a bit of a look. And for you, obviously, that first time, it was obvious which photo to look for.
03:22 –> 03:30
Yeah, exactly. The one like I had one where I call the lightning striking the TV tower and the Alexander.
03:30 –> 03:38
oh yeah yeah yes that’s a great image yeah thank you was there a lot of planning in that or was it
just was it well let’s come to that in a minute sam we’re going to talk about planning in a minute
03:42 –> 03:50
okay let’s keep this copyright idea a lot to dig in on this so basically you discovered your image
03:50 –> 03:58
has been used by 70 people on on on google through google what happened next yeah what happened i
03:58 –> 04:04
mean it’s it’s a really long story that i started to take a like back then i was still based in
04:04 –> 04:10
germany so i took a lawyer in germany and we tried to do something and then we we ended up going to
04:10 –> 04:16
court because the companies ignored us and it was against the polish company that stole my photo we
04:16 –> 04:23
went to the court in germany and we we lost that initial case so then i figured i need actually
04:23 –> 04:28
lawyers also in poland because i need to go to polish court um to take them to court there
04:28 –> 04:34
and to find the lawyers wasn’t that easy because as a single photographer you’re not having that much
04:35 –> 04:41
you know leverage you’re not that interesting to a lawyer and like it’s okay it’s not an easy thing
04:41 –> 04:47
so i started to see okay can i help my friends can i look up their portfolio on the internet and
so it kind of started to grow into a business that is that i’m now running it’s called photo claim
04:55 –> 05:03
where i’m helping photographers to a find where are the infringements and then b to kind of have this
05:03 –> 05:11
whole network between photographer and lawyers so that we bring the two together and um and ideally
05:11 –> 05:17
resolve the the copyright issue and get the photographer paid that’s that’s ultimately the goal so it’s about
05:17 –> 05:22
getting the photographer paid rather than getting the image removed or is it kind of depend on the
05:22 –> 05:27
circumstances we want we want to achieve both right so we want to achieve that the photo is removed and
05:27 –> 05:33
that the photographer gets compensated for the time during which it was used so always just for commercial
05:33 –> 05:39
we don’t care anything about like if somebody privately uses it on facebook or like none of that matters but
05:39 –> 05:44
like yeah if it’s if it’s anything commercial and like a business making money with it then it needs
05:44 –> 05:50
to be gone and the photographer needs to be paid and is that a global business or do you specialize in just
or do you just specialize in certain areas like europe so let’s call it anything in the western hemisphere so
06:00 –> 06:11
we do europe uh we do the us uh we do australia uk as well uh we are doing a bit in the uk as well um so
06:12 –> 06:19
there right now i’m personally doing quite a lot um with the small claims track uh it’s a bit difficult
06:19 –> 06:25
for photo claim to do something there because of the like you have a different way of representing yourself
06:25 –> 06:31
there versus representing via an agent so it’s easy for me as a photographer to go to the court in the
06:31 –> 06:37
uk but it’s a bit tricky to figure out how to do this on behalf of other photographers oh i see that’s
06:37 –> 06:43
one where we’re still watching them do it themselves yeah yeah because because you don’t get the legal fees
06:43 –> 06:49
and stuff yeah right okay you were saying that you don’t worry about the private use and it going on
06:49 –> 06:54
social media is there not an issue that if somebody puts your photo on social media effectively
06:54 –> 06:58
the copyright for that photo has been given to facebook because that’s kind of how the copyright
rules work on social media isn’t it uh well i mean if i i upload my own photos to facebook and instagram
07:05 –> 07:12
as well right so what this means is that i give i give facebook and instagram a license to show my photos
07:12 –> 07:18
right i mean it’s obviously it’s on their servers so they need to have that permit to do um and you know
07:18 –> 07:24
for other people to share those posts is then also allowed and i mean that’s that’s all fine so the whole
07:24 –> 07:29
different thing is like if you download it upload it again that they cannot but like i’m not really
07:29 –> 07:33
worried about the the rights that i’m giving to facebook and instagram because they’re not going
07:33 –> 07:39
to sell those photos so nice yeah okay okay and and i have to say your photo is still worried about that
07:41 –> 07:45
it’s like market i was just i was just finishing saying yes some photographers do worry about that
07:45 –> 07:49
so it’s interesting you’re just going it doesn’t matter they’re just using that don’t worry about it
07:50 –> 07:54
yeah like for private like this is where i draw the line basically privately you know if somebody wants
07:54 –> 07:59
to enjoy the photo shared with their friends and you know it’s that’s also the marketing part of this
07:59 –> 08:04
like why not yeah and what i was going to say yeah yeah i was going to say was really your and the type
08:04 –> 08:12
of photographs that you take nico are you know uber commercial you know you can just see i can just
08:12 –> 08:19
totally see how that how you how many people can be breaching your copyright i’d have what’s your success
08:19 –> 08:26
rate i i hope this i’m gonna like this answer i’m dreading asking it what’s your success rate rate
08:27 –> 08:35
um you mean to to gather infringement into somewhat of a settlement um it’s about like 30 40 percent i
08:35 –> 08:41
would say oh that is quite low okay yeah wow i thought it could have been lower and then you thought
08:41 –> 08:45
lower sound is that right well yeah i mean yeah i think doing that well is is probably you know that
08:45 –> 08:51
must be quite an achievement to you know there’s a lot of loopholes and a lot of cost and and so on
08:52 –> 08:56
so if people work with you how does it work with the cost do you do a kind of no win no fee type
08:56 –> 09:02
of thing or do they pay you to go and do this stuff yeah yeah exactly it’s a no win no fee um you
09:02 –> 09:08
know ever since we started at 2014 we started as a business ever since then there are a few other
09:08 –> 09:15
competitors out there who all have the same model right now um and like it’s really like depends where
09:15 –> 09:23
you go what we focus on is we’re like a rather boutique service so we help ideally photographers
09:23 –> 09:29
that just have too many infringements to cope with so that you know if you have one two three infringements
09:29 –> 09:35
like pixie is doing a good job for this as well if you have like 10 15 a month or so you’re probably
09:35 –> 09:41
better off working with us because we save the photographer just so much more time because for me personally i have like
09:42 –> 09:47
30 40 infringements in a month and i wouldn’t cope with any of the other services it’s not a guy
09:48 –> 09:56
so that is crazy yeah oh my god excellent okay so i think maybe marcus we should just one more one more
09:56 –> 10:01
question about this it’s it’s above a broader question and it is to do what you’re saying about
10:01 –> 10:08
your images going on social media facebook instagram etc now i because in the uk we’ve got a bit
10:10 –> 10:18
that loosening the copyright on any images um or or trying to that goes on social media in so that ai
10:18 –> 10:24
can mine it more successfully but i know in europe you’ve closed down on that a lot any thoughts on
10:24 –> 10:32
that nico any advice to our government no this is this is the big elephant in the room that i you know
10:32 –> 10:37
everybody asks me about it because i have a little bit knowledge of copyright but like anything that comes up
10:37 –> 10:46
with the ai this is going to be so tricky oh yeah yeah so um yeah i i don’t know like i can’t tell you
10:46 –> 10:51
more than anyone else okay we’ll move on we’ll move on sam yeah so what were you going to say sam what
10:51 –> 10:56
you’re saying well i was going to say and then with those kind of photography if we move on to the
10:56 –> 11:03
photography side of your business it’s kind of so you it’s a lot of travel images and then you’re selling
11:03 –> 11:10
those as fine art prints and kind of exclusively licensing those images is that right yeah that’s
11:10 –> 11:17
that’s correct so what i’m what i’m really looking for is like what i enjoy most absolutely in the
11:17 –> 11:24
business of photography is like to print my photos and then to sell some high quality um limited
11:24 –> 11:34
editions of those um and you know like i do i do a lot of photographs of uh empty cities and like
11:34 –> 11:41
spaces like uh city halls and in bigger towns like they they attract me for some reason okay and i
11:41 –> 11:48
always go there i always go in the early morning and i capture the town hall um in some some beautiful
11:48 –> 11:53
light and that turned out to be actually working really well for me because there are many people
11:53 –> 11:59
getting married in those places and then they they they find this on google and like oh i guess my
11:59 –> 12:04
20th wedding anniversary i would like to have uh i would actually like to have that on my wall
12:04 –> 12:12
and so it’s like this is what what really drives me of like knowing like oh if if if my photo can go on
12:12 –> 12:18
your wall like this keeps your memory vivid um that’s that’s really what i love to achieve with it
12:18 –> 12:23
okay and why did you decide to go for that and knock down the stock route and not think well
12:23 –> 12:28
these are going to be really popular destinations i could put this onto stock and i could get lots in
12:28 –> 12:32
from you know multiple uses what why did you decide that or they use that kind of limited
12:32 –> 12:42
more exclusive line actually i think i have to give thanks to my wife because i do remember that like in
12:42 –> 12:50
like probably 2015 2016 i had a bit of like uh you know artistic creative crisis and i was like
12:50 –> 12:57
thinking like how to do it what to do you get like so little um positive feedback for the photography right
12:57 –> 13:02
because i know obviously like they’re stolen a lot but like uh they are stolen more than they are being
13:02 –> 13:09
sold so like how how do you get positive in here so like at that point i was like maybe do stuff like
13:09 –> 13:14
selling it on such poster portals and where you would rather sell a lot but have like low margins
13:14 –> 13:21
um or doing the same as like doing stock photography and like i was like discussing it with her and like
13:21 –> 13:26
she’s like there’s no way you can do this i mean she knows how much time even goes in from me into a
13:26 –> 13:33
photo right like one of the photos like i i added them a lot afterwards so the post-processing alone is
13:33 –> 13:40
easily one hour one and a half hours in a single photograph so yeah there’s just no way i can you
13:40 –> 13:45
know put it online and sell it for five cents like yeah like stock photography wouldn’t work for me at all
13:45 –> 13:55
yeah okay nico let’s move on to this condition that you’ve got which um you call mind blindness
13:55 –> 14:03
tell me about that yeah yeah it’s something that i discovered just like a few years back um and that
14:03 –> 14:12
is that i cannot visualize anything so if i close my eyes and think of a beach all i see is black
14:12 –> 14:20
so there’s no image that i’m seeing so i can dream like at night when i’m sleeping and i’m dreaming i do see
14:20 –> 14:28
images i do see like the movie right but during the day like there’s nothing i can do and i never knew
14:28 –> 14:36
this is unusual right because like how could you like yeah that’s how you live yeah so at some point
14:36 –> 14:41
like my wife and me did a visualization exercise and we were like something like turn around the room
14:41 –> 14:47
and point somewhere and then like remember where you was pointing and like imagine yourself uh spinning
further and like she was like oh yeah i could do this somehow i spin more and like i was pointing
14:52 –> 14:57
there and i could see that and i asked her like what do you mean with like you see and she’s like well
14:57 –> 15:06
i i i saw that like like but like like see see like yeah i i could see the door it’s like why not what’s
15:06 –> 15:12
wrong i’m like i i see black i see nothing and so then i started to look into this i was like what is this
15:12 –> 15:19
and uh it is something that uh one to two percent of the population actually have and ever since then
15:19 –> 15:26
i started to talk a bit more about it and i noticed i also don’t hear anything so i don’t like oh i hear
15:26 –> 15:34
you but i cannot like have a song in my head right so it’s like i i would have i would have the concept of
15:34 –> 15:42
it so i would be able to sing to myself uh and so on but i don’t hear anything and likewise i have a
15:42 –> 15:47
concept of something that i could theoretically see i remember what the beach looks like but i cannot
15:47 –> 15:53
visually see it and yeah a friend of mine actually a very good friend that suffers from it and they told
me about it a few years ago and it’s like i just couldn’t quite get it but um how does that work with
15:59 –> 16:04
your photography then planning photographs yeah same question isn’t it markets how do you plan the shots
16:04 –> 16:12
when when kind of you have to be there and think about it and i literally have to be there and think
16:12 –> 16:19
about it so it’s like um i do walk with a lot with the camera open and look on the viewfinder to see like
16:19 –> 16:26
how things change and like where uh where to do it and even when i do my photo shoots it’s like because
16:26 –> 16:33
uh you know i i do a lot in the early morning and typically i go out the day before just to just to walk
16:33 –> 16:39
around go through the whole city to know where is what because i need to see it with my own eyes in
16:39 –> 16:45
order to get an understanding like how do i want to shoot here and um it’s like yeah it doesn’t work without
16:45 –> 16:51
give me an example how it works look let’s take this image that time uh of yours that you’ve taken
16:51 –> 16:56
of the coliseum with the sun shining right through the center of it so that’s obviously the kind of
thing oh you that’s how i would or pre-visualize the thing okay i want it to look like this look like
17:02 –> 17:09
that how did you go about taking that shot if you remember this really this this really wasn’t that
17:09 –> 17:16
plan so this was really like um me going like i had a different shot planned that morning and then i saw
17:16 –> 17:23
like oh the the sun is still going up nicely um so let me walk a bit further and let me have a stroll
17:23 –> 17:29
around the city before it gets really busy and then this is this is this photo is a typical result of
17:29 –> 17:35
what i’m what i’m doing in the morning that i have like one shot in my in my mind that this is the one
17:35 –> 17:40
i’m going for that’s the one i’m standing for and waiting and then as soon as the light hits typically
17:40 –> 17:47
i’m going like quite frantically walking around everywhere and like trying to find other nice
17:47 –> 17:53
shots other nice compositions and so this is exactly what happened there that i was actually walking from
17:53 –> 17:58
i was once surrounding the coliseum just to see like from all angles like where is the light nice
17:58 –> 18:06
then i noticed uh there being a few spots of light uh on the ground and so then i just know oh if if
18:06 –> 18:13
the if there’s sun in just a spot there’s a potential for uh doing something with a sun star
18:13 –> 18:20
yeah and so i quickly rushed into that spot and it was a handheld photo then just to move around and get
18:20 –> 18:26
the get the sun star in a good angle and like this was then really just having a few seconds to be able to
18:26 –> 18:31
take that photo because then also the tourists started to move in um but so this is where i’m
18:31 –> 18:35
just keeping my eyes open and see like okay where where is the sun coming through where can i have
18:35 –> 18:42
uh potentially things like that but my mornings are like they’re very calm and meditative until the light
18:42 –> 18:47
hits and then when the light hits i’m just running around and try to capture as much as i can yeah
18:47 –> 18:53
yeah that sounds like a typical um well look landscape or travel photographer maybe
18:53 –> 19:01
maybe you just one can you what’s what’s the big tip you can give for taking great landscapes or travel
19:01 –> 19:01
photographs
19:01 –> 19:11
it’s a tough one i guess yeah it is tough but like for me it’s like to have a plan but then also to stay
flexible with it so this is like um it usually doesn’t work out well for me if i go somewhere
19:18 –> 19:23
where i just have done no research about before right so it’s like i need to i need to go and like
19:23 –> 19:28
have a bit in my mind of okay this are like potentially the things that i’m doing so when i
19:28 –> 19:35
was in rome for a week i would have like um i’m not saying shot list but like a destination list of
19:35 –> 19:41
like 10 buildings uh 10 monuments or so where i’m like okay i want to take photographs of those so i’m
19:41 –> 19:46
like this is probably working best in the morning this is probably working okay in the evening you know
19:46 –> 19:53
planning a bit with photo pills where will the lights uh coming from and just to to kind of put like
19:53 –> 19:59
okay this is something i can do from a rooftop so sunset is fine because the people are not going
19:59 –> 20:03
to be disturbed if i want to shoot the coliseum i know i have to be there in the early morning because
20:03 –> 20:10
for sunset forget it there will be too many people in the way and so i’m i’m i’m planning the the trip
20:10 –> 20:14
with putting down my destinations of like okay these are the things that i would want to visit
this is something i can have to do in the morning is it something i can do in the evening or is it
20:19 –> 20:25
potentially even something that i can do during the day because um quite a few of my popular
20:25 –> 20:30
photographs are from the middle of the day when many photographers are just like not doing something
20:30 –> 20:36
but especially interiors are perfect so if i go into churches that’s great and even otherwise like
20:36 –> 20:43
blue sky photography can sell actually really really well because that’s what uh travel agencies want to
20:43 –> 20:48
sell their customers they want to sell the sun and for us photographers we’re always like oh sunset
20:48 –> 20:54
amazing and all those colors in the sky and i’m like okay but like for me there’s like there’s
20:54 –> 20:59
sunrise then there’s golden hour and then there starts the money hour which is when it’s just like
20:59 –> 21:06
just blue beautiful yeah sky and like that works fantastic oh cool that’s a great tip alone there
21:06 –> 21:10
that’s a great tip absolutely because yeah people normally put their camera wet or photographers put
21:10 –> 21:15
their cameras wet midday but yeah so you basically go inside and look for that blue sky
around about around about midday yeah nice yeah yeah like it can it can work makes sense okay and then
21:22 –> 21:28
in terms of this exclusive licensing how are you going about finding people that want these pictures what
21:28 –> 21:36
are you doing to to get the photos out there to find those customers yeah so they find me so um i’ve i’ve
21:36 –> 21:45
like a few sources the main one being my my website my blog so um ever since i started i
21:45 –> 21:49
i did a blog so for every photo that i published there’s a blog article
21:49 –> 21:53
um and that works literally every single photograph has a blog
21:53 –> 22:02
yes yes every every single photo um has its own dedicated article so if you if you look at my
22:02 –> 22:07
website the blog section of it it’s it’s more a travel blog than a photography blog you can kind
22:07 –> 22:13
of say so uh it’s really where i provide more background information on the places that i visit
22:13 –> 22:20
because i’m i’m a traveler like the photography for me came after i started traveling already and
22:20 –> 22:26
then i was like probably my mind blindness that i’m like i need those memories right because i can’t
22:26 –> 22:32
visually memorize any of my past trips so i needed the photographs to keep my own memories with it
22:32 –> 22:42
and so therefore it all came together this way but um due due to the website having such um structure
22:42 –> 22:48
every photo is explained and every location is explained and therefore those photos are coming
22:48 –> 22:54
up quite high in google and then for a few cities i’m like on the first page of the google image search
22:54 –> 23:01
and then due to the vibrant nature of my images they they typically stand out and then so uh companies
23:01 –> 23:07
that want to have a photo that stands out they will find that one and then they look at it and like oh
23:07 –> 23:14
that’s that’s not a typical stock image and then that’s something we can do with so uh clients that you
23:14 –> 23:20
know want to have it for a book cover and like you don’t want to have a stock photo on your book cover you
23:20 –> 23:26
know it’s like that doesn’t that doesn’t work uh if that same image pops up like a hundred times on social
23:26 –> 23:33
media it’s like that doesn’t have the same uh value to it um and so that’s what i’m aiming at
23:33 –> 23:42
amazing so marcus nico is our absolutely perfect guest because what are you saying is that blogging is
23:42 –> 23:49
absolutely amazing which i spend all my time saying and that perfectly creative amazing photos are also
23:49 –> 23:54
essentially which is what you’re always saying market so i think nico is our is our perfect guest
23:54 –> 23:59
that’s it he’s got he’s got he’s got a great gig going there the photographs are the images are
23:59 –> 24:04
absolutely fantastic top top top notch you’re obviously making income from it you’ve got other
24:04 –> 24:09
sources as well allied to the copyright ally to photography but you’ve got income coming as well
24:10 –> 24:19
you know good job 10 out of 10 for you there nico thank you marcus um okay so we’re just coming up to
24:19 –> 24:25
the wrapping up the show uh what what’s next for you nike any nico any any dream destinations you’re
24:25 –> 24:25
planning
24:25 –> 24:36
so yeah i’m still working on getting all europe in my portfolio so this is like um for me the series i’m
24:36 –> 24:43
calling europe rising um so which is getting the photos in the early mornings in europe but it’s
24:43 –> 24:51
also uh kind of like i started with that ever since the brexit talks kind of uh were happening because
24:51 –> 24:59
i’m so personally so european you know i’m from germany my wife is polish we met in the czech republic we
24:59 –> 25:06
now in portugal so it’s like i love europe and so for me i remember this time that there was also in
25:06 –> 25:13
germany so much negative talk about europe that i was like i want to i want to show actually the
25:13 –> 25:18
positives of it we can like you know politics aside like that’s stuff that can be argued about and
25:18 –> 25:26
everything but like in terms of our common cultural heritage as european yes that’s something i love and
25:26 –> 25:32
that’s something we should never forget and that’s um kind of what i’m trying to highlight a bit and what
25:32 –> 25:39
i’m what i’m what i’m trying to achieve with my photography and so um i’m i’m going to go now to
25:39 –> 25:46
actually to paris because i haven’t done photos in paris yet i’m focusing so much on all the rather
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less um known areas but then there are still like a few countries um malta being one of them um belgium
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being another that i want to visit soon to really um start to have the overall project um being more and
more completed to then uh find a way to exhibit it somewhere out in the in the real world so this is
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kind of what i’m looking for next steps of how to get more exposure in in the real world where people
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can see the things not just on their screens i’m a bit tired of uh everything happening on social media so this
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is for me like the next the next steps i mean that’s a great why you have given there nico to the
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reason how you’ve put your work together it’s not just random you’ve done it for a very specific
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reason and that’s really just worth dwelling on there it’s like a super large personal project
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you’ve got there isn’t it yeah it’s probably probably going to be a lifelong project because
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for me it’s really about discovering the regions in europe it’s like i i’m so in love with that of
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you have uh it’s such a diversity that we have in the smaller corner of the planet that uh you you go into
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the car you drive for two hours and you’re like you’re in a different space uh it’s like germany is
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not one german culture it’s like the north of germany is very very different to the south of germany
and i i remember it completely being in lithuania um uh some years ago that we were just going to a little
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castle one hour outside of the city and we went to a restaurant there and now i noticed my camera
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turned off um that’s okay okay um so we we went an hour out of the capital of lithuania and went to
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a restaurant in the restaurant we noticed this is like oriental food but it’s like a it’s it’s a
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regional restaurant but a very oriental food and i was like how come what’s happening here and then
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it turned out that the people settling around this castle were actually took minic was a took minic
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tribe from the time when there was a polish lithuanian empire and the the king had to retreat all the way
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from the black sea uh back up to lithuania and the baltics and uh as a um as a thank you he allowed
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those um those horsemen that were coming with him and protecting him to settle around the castle and
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ever since then you have like your own kind of microculture in just this little lake region and
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like this is the stuff that i find so fascinating what we have in europe it’s like yeah well you’re
obviously totally in love with your job well done nika that’s very that’s been a great great to meet
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you and hear a little bit more about a little bit more about your work brilliant well nico thank you
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so much for being with us that has been amazing and marcus i will see you next week see you next week and
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thanks again nico thank you sam thank you marcus pleasure to be here right.
